Live data from Hacker News

The Worst U.S. Maritime Disaster in Decades

vanityfair.com

111–120 of 175 posts

Re: The Worst U.S. Maritime Disaster in Decades

#111

The article mentions that there are major merchant vessels sinking every two/three days! That seems huge. How many deaths per year does that amount to? We're lucky to be in tech I guess.

"Come work in tech, at least you won't get killed by hurricanes" sounds like a great endorsement.

Re: The Worst U.S. Maritime Disaster in Decades

#112
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my takeaways from the article is that the captain's confidence and willingness to do the right thing had been shaken after he'd been burned the last time he'd refused unsafe orders. I'm wondering if the 1st officer similarly faced bad consequences for doing the right thing and taking command -- mutiny charges are still a thing, aren't they?

That seemed like irresponsible speculation on Vanity Fair's part to me. The root cause was a captain who mistakenly reacted off of 12 hour old data and ignored another source of data that contradicted it. Pretty surprising given the lengths the article goes through to impress upon the reader how "safety conscious" he was.

It is speculation, but it is also relevant. Commercial shipping may be uniquely prone to accidents caused by profit-driven decisions, as discussed in Perrow's Normal Accidents book.

The article probably emphasises the captain's safety consciousnes to prevent people from "blaming the operator", which is an instinctual and often wrong conclusion to jump to.

The NTSB report says: Performance. The chief mate's performance evaluations were consistently positive. His evaluation from June 2015 stated that he was “passionate” about his work and “an excellent instructor for the inexperienced.”

Re: The Worst U.S. Maritime Disaster in Decades

#113

1. FYI the article is new but the disaster described happened on October 1, 2015. 2. I was astonished at this: > "It has been reported that a major merchant ship goes down somewhere in the world every two or three days; most are ships sailing under flags of convenience, with underpaid crews and poor safety records."

As to point #2: https://www.fleetmon.com/maritime-news/?category=incidents has a sobering list.

Re: The Worst U.S. Maritime Disaster in Decades

#115
post #39
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It still boggles my mind how three different GPS position formats can be used. And then not used correctly by search crews, which then missed location by 23nm. https://i.imgur.com/nbwkCPY.png

23 nanometers off, dang. If they'd only had a slightly wider field of view, they could have found those poor people. :(

Perhaps a little poor taste with the tone, but this is a great point. We're all talking about how poorly we handle units. Nm has two meanings, but I didn't even think about it until this comment.

Re: The Worst U.S. Maritime Disaster in Decades

#116

Wonder why shippers don't have a 24/7 Operations Center employing meteorologists and tracking weather systems and ships and in close contact with ship's crew. It struck me that there was a lot of friction for the crew to just plot up-to-date weather/forecasts and the ship's course. Crew was constantly fighting for current data and good/correct visualization.

Depends on the line. Most big names do.

Re: The Worst U.S. Maritime Disaster in Decades

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s an interesting ethics question here: If your ship’s location places you near a hurricane, should they just quietly upgrade you for free tenporarily so that you don’t sink?

They should at least place a large warning stating that the data is not safe to use for navigational purposes.

If you did this warnings, you would want to be on the safe side. So, there would be a lot of false positives. But, as a result, your customers would get accustomed to it and don't treat them seriously.

There's no easy fixes here.

Re: The Worst U.S. Maritime Disaster in Decades

#118
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those formats are simply insane. It's well known that some people use decimal fractions of degrees, so why would anyone even consider using a decimal point to separate degrees and minutes?

Was this a big problem before computers? I doubt it. Back in the analog days two people would engage in a dialogue and ensure the units were agreed upon. Now people just blindly type data into a screen, or two computers blindly exchange packets without proper metadata. It's ironic that we have 1000x better navigational accuracy than a 19th century tallship captain but we're much more careless with the data than he wo…

I don't think it's carelessness, rather that 1000x more accurate navigation gives you a lot more things to care about. That 19th century captain measured the angle between the pole star and the local horizon with a sextant; the cartographers did it the same way, because that was the only thing you could do.

Today, we work with atomic clocks, and our instruments fabricate an angle between the z-axis and a 100th order spherical harmonic series that models the shape of the ocean surface. Every few years, we update the model to keep up with plate tectonics. (Not exactly, but you get the idea.) There are a lot more things to go wrong, and not everyone programs in sanity checks to prevent small corrections from causing large errors.

Re: The Worst U.S. Maritime Disaster in Decades

#119
What’s really interesting about this is the sort of horror film aspect to these situations where everyone gets a bad feeling of impending doom but they push forward anyway.

People should trust that instinct. Takes a lot of effort to pull away from the brink, but you should do it. 100% of the time.

Re: The Worst U.S. Maritime Disaster in Decades

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, this scenario is what many people jump towards in missing-persons cases, and it so far has not been true even once in my experience. It does happen, but it's much rarer than a straightforward combination of bad circumstances and bad decisions. Hell, at this point I've seen more murders and probable murders than people disappearing on purpose.

Likelihood is irrelevant -- what matters is if it was covered. For example, if he bought "How to Disappear Completely and Never Be Found" on Amazon, was doing Google Searches for it, etc. -- seems not only worth further investigation. Research shows that if for example during an interview his wife said it was possibly a suicide, that the odds are good it was: https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-319-40199-…

Please don't promote conspiracy theories insulting a dead man with no evidence whatsoever.
Post reply on HN