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Pivotal Software S-1

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Re: Pivotal Software S-1

#111

Post by jypepin »

stickfigure wrote: post #20

I consulted at Pivotal on and off over the last several years and got an up-close look at the process. This a heroic feat. In a short matter of years, they took a consulting services company, adopted some poorly designed abandonware from VMWare, and rebuilt it into a product that now serves some of the biggest companies in the world. Pretty much everything has been rewritten and almost all of it is available in githu…

Are there any good resources out there about how pivotal works in details? A book, or anything else you could recommend?

Re: Pivotal Software S-1

#112

Post by mephitix »

brobinson wrote: post #80
mephitix wrote: post #29

The only two experiences I had with Pivotal were with RabbitMQ (a very well designed product) and with Pivotal Tracker - I tried it about a year ago. I felt like I was fighting the software; they were extremely stubborn about adhering to Scrum 'best practices' that may not work in practice.

I got to work with some Pivots at their office about a decade ago and learned to use Tracker from them. It's the only system I've ever seen that works well and gives predictable results over time. Almost every company I've been at has used abhorrent alternatives like Asana, Jira, etc. and they've been consistently awful experiences.

I tried and eventually got tired of Jira, Trello, Team Foundation Server, and Pivotal Tracker.

The one tool that I've been loving for the past year is http://clubhouse.io. Such a well-designed product and extremely flexible (I think it could fit most teams' requirements around Agile/Kanban/etc.)

Re: Pivotal Software S-1

#113

Post by mephitix »

cbryan wrote: post #99
edem wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for a company (subsidiary of Siemens) who adopted that horrendous Scrum methodology. It was the absolute __worst__ year of my life. I had to pair with people non-stop even when __fixing bugs__. There were zounds of stupid rules which did not make sense whatsoever. Perfect example of forcing a methodology on a company where it will never work. I really like Pivotal products though. RabbitMQ is superb, and alt…

It's not Scrum. It's Extreme Programming. It works fantastically well, even when you're __fixing bugs__. The whole idea is that you need to be paired so that two people can understand and problem solve around the bug. You end up with twice the understanding that you had before. It's worth it.

Here's a radical thought - maybe Extreme Programming (I still think this is a genius marketing name :) works for some people and doesn't work for others?

After trying so many of these methodologies I've come to realize that people just work differently. It's self-defeating to try to push Extreme Programming or whatever on someone who prefers and is efficient at working alone.

Maybe adopt some of Scrum/XP/whatever that can be adopted at a high-level, but trying to push it through a team composed of people with different personalities and different ways of working just defeats the entire purpose.

Re: Pivotal Software S-1

#114

Post by brobinson »

mephitix wrote: post #112
brobinson wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got to work with some Pivots at their office about a decade ago and learned to use Tracker from them. It's the only system I've ever seen that works well and gives predictable results over time. Almost every company I've been at has used abhorrent alternatives like Asana, Jira, etc. and they've been consistently awful experiences.

I tried and eventually got tired of Jira, Trello, Team Foundation Server, and Pivotal Tracker. The one tool that I've been loving for the past year is http://clubhouse.io . Such a well-designed product and extremely flexible (I think it could fit most teams' requirements around Agile/Kanban/etc.)

I will check it out. Thanks!

Re: Pivotal Software S-1

#115

Post by sheepmullet »

cbryan wrote: post #100
sheepmullet wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is unnecessarily cynical. I think it's pretty clear that these strict agile processes work well for some and poorly for others - some people do better in a highly structured environment and others do worse - it's a bit like remote work on the other end of the spectrum. The criticism and pushback comes from the negative experiences devs have had when management pushes a one-size-fits-all approach. I've been inv…

It's a great process for reigning in "great" engineers that produce a ton of technical debt. It's a fantastic approach for making your engineering team more stable and product delivery more predictable.

> It's a great process for reigning in "great" engineers that produce a ton of technical debt

So any positives can safely be attributed to the new process and any negatives are clearly just the new process shining a light on existing problems.

Gotcha.

And the parent poster was wondering why people were so cynical.

> making your engineering team more stable

Can you expand upon what you mean by more stable?

One of the main selling points to management is it becomes much easier to switch developers between teams.

> product delivery more predictable.

In what sense? And through what mechanism?

It does reduce risk on short term deliverables but that's a very narrow interpretation of predictable.

It's certainly not the case as an external customer - trying to nail down an xp team to a fixed deadline more than a few weeks away is an exercise in frustration.

Re: Pivotal Software S-1

#116

Post by megaduck »

raverbashing wrote: post #46
gorbachev wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This explains some of it: http://www.businessinsider.com/pivotal-906-am-breakfast-meet...

TL;DR "So Pivotal decided to employ both a stick and a carrot. The stick is a mandatory morning meeting at 9 a.m., where your absence will likely be noted. The carrot is the breakfast buffet, "sort of a prize to get in,"" I'm glad I read this. Now I'm sure to never apply for this company

I run the Pivotal office in Singapore. Breakfast is wonderful, but it's hardly mandatory.

Standup at 9:06 is important, though. In order for pairing to work, you need to have everybody there at the same time.

The iron bargain is that you work a rigid eight hour schedule, but then you go home (or wherever) and don't think about work. No overtime or crunch mode, ever.

It's not for everybody, but many folks really really really like it.

Re: Pivotal Software S-1

#117

Post by jtwaleson »

sinkholes wrote: post #86

This series of posts from a former Pivotal employee provides interesting context: https://matt.sh/anatomy-of-a-fraud https://matt.sh/commit-this https://matt.sh/dumb-pivotal-2018

Geez, incredibly negative and even bitter. Sure, the deployment of Cloud Foundry is complex, but we're running 6 (OSS) clusters in production with hardly any problems in the last 2 years. The quality is not nearly as bad as being described here. The author seems angry overall, and especially about sales people making more money, which is simply a necessary evil of selling to enterprises.

Full disclosure: I am currently employed by another member of the Cloud Foundry Foundation.

Re: Pivotal Software S-1

#118

Post by edem »

cbryan wrote: post #99
edem wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for a company (subsidiary of Siemens) who adopted that horrendous Scrum methodology. It was the absolute __worst__ year of my life. I had to pair with people non-stop even when __fixing bugs__. There were zounds of stupid rules which did not make sense whatsoever. Perfect example of forcing a methodology on a company where it will never work. I really like Pivotal products though. RabbitMQ is superb, and alt…

It's not Scrum. It's Extreme Programming. It works fantastically well, even when you're __fixing bugs__. The whole idea is that you need to be paired so that two people can understand and problem solve around the bug. You end up with twice the understanding that you had before. It's worth it.

No it __is not working fantastically well__. I speak from experience. There are also numerous studies (I can link to them) which detail why pair programming wastes time if not used for the right problem (mentoring or super-difficult task).

Re: Pivotal Software S-1

#119

Post by edem »

mephitix wrote: post #113
cbryan wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not Scrum. It's Extreme Programming. It works fantastically well, even when you're __fixing bugs__. The whole idea is that you need to be paired so that two people can understand and problem solve around the bug. You end up with twice the understanding that you had before. It's worth it.

Here's a radical thought - maybe Extreme Programming (I still think this is a genius marketing name :) works for some people and doesn't work for others? After trying so many of these methodologies I've come to realize that people just work differently. It's self-defeating to try to push Extreme Programming or whatever on someone who prefers and is efficient at working alone. Maybe adopt some of Scrum/XP/whatever tha…

My thoughts exactly. I just __hate it__. I was super bored, super frustrated, and it was a complete waste of time. I resigned after a year of struggle.

Re: Pivotal Software S-1

#120

Post by jyriand »

nicodjimenez wrote: post #107

Wow 270 million dollars a year I had no idea they made that much money.

Are you talking about Gross profit? I'm not an accountant, but by the looks of their financial data, Pivotal is consistently losing money. I'm talking about Net loss 163 million.
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