Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

bloomberg.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 180 posts

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#111

Post by eric_h »

bduerst wrote: post #99
jayess wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...by using the latest, greatest new term to shut down debate and avoid addressing the concept of being intellectually honest.

Whataboutism isn't new, nor is it intellectually dishonest to point out when it's being used. Soviets started using it during the cold war era, and it's still in use as a deflection tactic today.

> Whataboutism isn't new

You are absolutely correct, however I would argue that it has only relatively recently entered the common HN lexicon. The vast majority (~675 out of 704^) of comments using it here in the comments are Admittedly the first comment on HN that used the term is 7 years old, but that comment [0] predates the creation of the wikipedia article (frequently trotted out when invoking the term here) by about a year.

As an aside, I'd love see a dataviz app that shows the lifecycle of terminology and memes that thrive in various internet discussion boards.

0) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2944345

^well it'll be 705 including this post ;)

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#112

Post by IAmEveryone »

rectang wrote: post #5

It's fascinating that widespread outrage over privacy finally materializes when data is used for hated political causes. Commerce, law enforcement not so much... but "Trump" or "Obama" and suddenly people care.

At least half the country feel like they were actually harmed, and even the rest sees the danger coming closer. I actually don’t care, or may even prefer, if commercial ads are perfectly targeted at me.

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#113

Post by [deleted] »

roenxi wrote: post #95
astronautjones wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah, CA was willfully stoking hate in its audience with hateful propaganda, and the Obama campaign literally did not do that. There is no equivalency

You've piqued my interest with this comment because, read literally, you seem to be against hate. Hating isn't illegal, immoral or even necessarily a bad idea. Hate can be justified. Hate is dangerous in politics as is any strong emotion . Trying to hold a country together demands compromise, which in turn requires moderation. Facebook is empowering mass surveillance and propaganda, and encourages outrage and knee-je…

[deleted]

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#114

Post by mistermann »

lkrubner wrote: post #82

There is a suddenness to this episode that deserves some examination. For years, Facebook has been violating people's privacy. For years, people went along with it. Perhaps on some level, people were disturbed by it, but they weren't angry enough to do anything about it. If we were discussing economics, then we would call this a Minsky moment[1]. If you substitute "trust" for "money" then this almost fits: " A Minsky…

The panic, if there is any, is due to reporting in the media.

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#115

Post by bduerst »

eric_h wrote: post #111
bduerst wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whataboutism isn't new, nor is it intellectually dishonest to point out when it's being used. Soviets started using it during the cold war era, and it's still in use as a deflection tactic today.

> Whataboutism isn't new You are absolutely correct, however I would argue that it has only relatively recently entered the common HN lexicon. The vast majority (~675 out of 704^) of comments using it here in the comments are Admittedly the first comment on HN that used the term is 7 years old, but that comment [0] predates the creation of the wikipedia article (frequently trotted out when invoking the term here) by…

Interesting timeframe on increased usage on HN. That may be correlated with the current president of the United States using it frequently: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism#Use_by_Donald_T...

Again, that still doesn't make it new or intellectually dishonest to point out.

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#116

Post by anonnel »

fredliu wrote: post #18
Mayzie wrote: post #14

Wow, is it just me, or is Bloomberg really on the attack on Facebook? Every article on Facebook from them submitted here and other places like Reddit have always been quite negative, especially the headline.

Definitely not just you. And to me, it's not just Bloomberg, looks like most of traditional media companies are out this time.

So someone is trying to get journalisim to be branded as “traditional media” now.

The implication is “old and busted”, when in reality they have modern widely distributed websites which are as contemporary as any alternative medias being inferred ... which are what exactly? Twitter?

“Journalism media” seems to be an appropriate counter.

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#117

Post by SmirkingRevenge »

bduerst wrote: post #60
frostburg wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a damage control talking point, see Wikileaks (which at this point is basically a Russian propaganda mouthpiece) immediately suggesting it.

Yep, it's also a known tactic for deflection: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

Its also become a bit of a convenient shield for many to avoid confronting/admitting their own side's double-standards or bad-faith power politicking.

Not accusing you of the above, but "Whataboutism" is as old as double-standards it draws attention to. But IMHO the accusation is more often use for ill than for good.

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#118

Post by mch82 »

rectang wrote: post #5

It's fascinating that widespread outrage over privacy finally materializes when data is used for hated political causes. Commerce, law enforcement not so much... but "Trump" or "Obama" and suddenly people care.

Am I wrong that there is a clear difference between big data marketing methods and military information operations methods?

> [SCL Group's] expertise was in “psychological operations” – or psyops – changing people’s minds not through persuasion but through “informational dominance”, a set of techniques that includes rumour, disinformation and fake news.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/mar/17/data-war-whistl...

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#119

Post by boojums »

anonnel wrote: post #110
delhanty wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Facebook/Google/... vs trad media is like lions vs hyenas fighting over a wildebeest carcass on the Seregenti. Personally, I'm rooting for the wildebeest to come back to life and run off.

FB is far from being a victim of lions or a carcass. If the metaphor you are trying to paint is a struggle is between Journalism Media and Social Media, I totally disagree with the side you’re picking.

I believe delhanty was referring to the general public as the wildebeest.

Re: Zuckerberg Has No Way Out of Facebook's Quagmire

#120

Post by gord288 »

sverige wrote: post #11
rectang wrote: post #5

It's fascinating that widespread outrage over privacy finally materializes when data is used for hated political causes. Commerce, law enforcement not so much... but "Trump" or "Obama" and suddenly people care.

The Facebook outrage is interesting since it is tied to Trump. When Obama did it, no one cared. For example, there's a video of Jim Messina, Obama's 2012 campaign manager, talking about how they obtained the entire Facebook social graph and used it to target voters. [1] I don't remember any "delete Facebook" campaigns back then. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZmcyHpG31A

Link: 'No, Obama Didn’t Employ the Same Strategies as Cambridge Analytica' https://washingtonmonthly.com/2018/03/21/no-obama-didnt-empl...
Post reply on HN