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The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

forbes.com

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Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#111

Post by rayiner »

guelo wrote: post #26
IBM wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The story I hear is that Cellebrite hires ex-Apple engineers and moves them to countries where Apple can't prosecute them under the DMCA or its equivalents. Crazy if true. Doesn't this also create a weird incentive problem where the FBI (or any other law enforcement agency) who would normally be tasked with helping Apple with this doesn't actually want to?

So Israel is like a high tech Guantanamo where our government goes when those pesky laws get in the way.

No? The law doesn’t prevent the government from searching your property in a wide range of circumstances: e.g. with a warrant, pursuant to a valid arrest, etc. That’s the whole idea of warrants: so there is a controlled way to search private property. The government goes to Israel to defeat technological roadblocks to doing what it’s allowed to do under the law. This technology isn’t being used to break into phones at surprise checkpoints, it’s being used to search phones of people who have been arrested.

Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#112

Post by Chriky »

TylerE wrote: post #57
wmf wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They'll probably drop the case if the defense points this out (seriously, look at Stingrays).

Or they just do parallel construction. They gather the evidence illegally, and the conjure up a legal means to re-find the evidence they already know exists.

What here is illegally gathered?

Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#113

Post by pessimizer »

rayiner wrote: post #111
guelo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Israel is like a high tech Guantanamo where our government goes when those pesky laws get in the way.

No? The law doesn’t prevent the government from searching your property in a wide range of circumstances: e.g. with a warrant, pursuant to a valid arrest, etc. That’s the whole idea of warrants: so there is a controlled way to search private property. The government goes to Israel to defeat technological roadblocks to doing what it’s allowed to do under the law. This technology isn’t being used to break into phones a…

You left out why that's different from Guantanamo, and instead just defended it generally.

Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#114

Post by chapill »

ddalex wrote: post #85
peterjlee wrote: post #77

This might be a good scenario for Apple. Apple doesn't have to build a backdoor, which is good for PR, and the Feds got what they want to they'll stop bothering Apple. Which is the position Android/Google was in all along.

So the tinfoil hat theory here is that Apple itself leaks the cracking tech to Cellobrite to ease the fed pressure, and keep reputation intact? Sorry, I don't buy it.

No one at Apple would share source code? You never heard of iBoot.

Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#115

Post by Bitcoin_McPonzi »

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #82
forapurpose wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Relative to the size of its population, Israel has a highly developed electronics engineering related industry. Part of it related to their state support of domestic defense contractors ... It's not due only to Israeli resources. Much of Israel's defense budget comes from the U.S., plus there is much more support, including technology transfer, that isn't provided in cash.

According to Businessweek [1] in 2012, the Israeli defence budget was approx. $15 billion per year and US military aid was $3.07 billion per year. [1] http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-how-much-america-really...

For some reason, the Powers that Be at YCombinator allow unabated criticism of Israel, even if it's based on completely made-up facts.

Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#116

Post by Bitcoin_McPonzi »

forapurpose wrote: post #64
walrus01 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Relative to the size of its population, Israel has a highly developed electronics engineering related industry. Part of it related to their state support of domestic defense contractors like IAI and their avionics/radar/C4I equipment. Aside from Cellbrite, companies like Ceragon, Alvarion, Radwin, ECI, Telrad, Elbit. Second hand knowledge: Within international organizations that have worked extensively in the Israel-…

> Relative to the size of its population, Israel has a highly developed electronics engineering related industry. Part of it related to their state support of domestic defense contractors ... It's not due only to Israeli resources. Much of Israel's defense budget comes from the U.S., plus there is much more support, including technology transfer, that isn't provided in cash.

@dang why do you allow and encourage people to spread bald-faced off-topic lies?

Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#117

Post by QGmLe »

dogma1138 wrote: post #80
forapurpose wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Relative to the size of its population, Israel has a highly developed electronics engineering related industry. Part of it related to their state support of domestic defense contractors ... It's not due only to Israeli resources. Much of Israel's defense budget comes from the U.S., plus there is much more support, including technology transfer, that isn't provided in cash.

About 10% of the defense budget or 1% of GDP is US military aid that can be spent only on US military hardware.

Err, Facts can't be made up.

Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#118

Post by paulie_a »

majewsky wrote: post #109
movedx wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand what you're saying here: why share the fact they've broken the SE for $100k when they can keep making millions. But if they cracked the SE, and kept that fact to themselves, they would be making even more money because every government on the planet would be coming to them. This is provided they kept it to themselves. It would mean a significant spike in the number of phones being cracked and people bein…

> This would be a statistic that would jump off the charts and trigger Apple to essentially develop a solution straight away. How, though? If the only information Apple has is that their SE scheme is broken, how is that supposed to help them develop a solution?

The risky.biz podcast proposed a solution, half seriously and half in jest, offer 50 million for the bug bounty. It would destroy the working relationships and trust of the group of people that is required to come up with multi stage exploits, and apple has the cash to do that once or twice.

Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#119

Post by rayiner »

pessimizer wrote: post #113
rayiner wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No? The law doesn’t prevent the government from searching your property in a wide range of circumstances: e.g. with a warrant, pursuant to a valid arrest, etc. That’s the whole idea of warrants: so there is a controlled way to search private property. The government goes to Israel to defeat technological roadblocks to doing what it’s allowed to do under the law. This technology isn’t being used to break into phones a…

You left out why that's different from Guantanamo, and instead just defended it generally.

Presumably guelo thinks Guantanamo permits the US to do things that would be illegal here. But breaking an iPhone pursuant to a warrant wouldn’t be. Having a warrant (or a suspect in custody) permits the government, by design, to do lots of things that would otherwise be illegal. The government doesn’t need to ship safes to Israel to avoid violating safe cracking laws when searching pursuant to a warrant.

Re: The Feds Can Now Probably Unlock Every iPhone Model

#120

Post by wu-ikkyu »

rayiner wrote: post #111
guelo wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So Israel is like a high tech Guantanamo where our government goes when those pesky laws get in the way.

No? The law doesn’t prevent the government from searching your property in a wide range of circumstances: e.g. with a warrant, pursuant to a valid arrest, etc. That’s the whole idea of warrants: so there is a controlled way to search private property. The government goes to Israel to defeat technological roadblocks to doing what it’s allowed to do under the law. This technology isn’t being used to break into phones a…

How do you know what it's being used for?
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