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KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

kaiostech.com

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Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#111

Post by smt88 »

jacquesm wrote: post #20
djsumdog wrote: post #11

I'd really like to see a truly open alternative on the mobile space. The biggest issue is the hardware. It's just not standardized and there's no incentive to do so. It's really preventing the way Linux took off on developers desktops back in the late 90s/early 2000s. FirefoxOS and Ubuntu Touch looked promising, but they lacked good hardware to run on. I'd really like to try Plasma, but I don't like any of the device…

I really want PostMarketOS to succeed, for one because it would be really neat to have an open phone OS but also because I think it would cut down a lot on the number of phones that end up being demolished long before their actual life-span is at an end.

I have a 1st-gen Moto X that I use as a backup.

It's about as responsive as my Pixel (i.e. not very responsive, not even close to iPhone) and it's a great size.

The problem is, as always, the battery. If I could replace that and install PostMarket, I might use it as my daily driver.

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#112

Post by HIPisTheAnswer »

blitmap wrote: post #47
djsumdog wrote: post #11

I'd really like to see a truly open alternative on the mobile space. The biggest issue is the hardware. It's just not standardized and there's no incentive to do so. It's really preventing the way Linux took off on developers desktops back in the late 90s/early 2000s. FirefoxOS and Ubuntu Touch looked promising, but they lacked good hardware to run on. I'd really like to try Plasma, but I don't like any of the device…

Speaking as someone not at all involved in this space, I'd love for Google to take smartphones waaaay more seriously. I feel like in an effort to make Android easy to adopt and customize they have let the "feel" of Android suffer. I hate bloatware on every new phone. I hate that phones differ so greatly. Something invaluable to me on an iPhone is the switch to silence alerts. I wish Google would define a "standard" l…

Google is funding FuchsiaOS, the source is copyfree and there are Wayland calls in the tree.

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#113

Post by mixmastamyk »

nasredin wrote: post #70
bachmeier wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really agree with the claim. What allowed the Linux desktop to take off was extreme security problems in Windows and generally a terrible user experience. Anyone adopting Linux had to put up with constant hardware incompatibility issues. It's just that Windows was so bad that it was worth it. (I made the switch sometime around 2003, and have been Linux-only for more than a decade.) In contrast, there is no ob…

In addition to security. Linux and BSDs were not as polished usability-wise as Windows NTs before early 2000s. Just my humble opinion.

Still not. Just tried to schedule a disk check on reboot and had to scour a bunch of pages to find something that might work.

No std msc or service manager gui available either. Some of these existed but were lost in a CADT.

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#114

Post by beefhash »

fabrice_d wrote: post #99
culot wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently KaiOS is a fork of Firefox OS/B2G. So... where's the code, yo? I've scoured Github, but no sign of it. edit: nevermind: "KaiOS is based on the Firefox OS open-source project and we are committed to abide by the rules of the applicable open source licenses. Therefore, we’ll make the source code available to the extent required by the applicable open source licenses." So that's a no on giving back to the B2G…

It's not a "no on giving back". You only have to make available the source for products you ship, and KaiOS itself is not the one shipping the devices, so it's up to the OEMs to provide the source they use on their phones (they do their own customizations). That being said, I'm trying to get us to open source the "base" version which is provided to OEMs.

> I'm trying to get us to open source

Can I assume you're involved with KaiOS development? Android vendors have a terrible reputation about pushing security updates in a timely manner (or at all for devices that aren't the current flagship). Do you have any plans to contractually force or otherwise encourage vendors to push security updates?

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#115

Post by pjmlp »

bachmeier wrote: post #53
zokier wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's really preventing the way Linux took off on developers desktops back in the late 90s/early 2000s. It is somewhat ironical that the Wintel monopoly that standardized so much of PC space ultimately ended up helping Linux desktops, despite the grumblings of UNIX greybeards.

I don't really agree with the claim. What allowed the Linux desktop to take off was extreme security problems in Windows and generally a terrible user experience. Anyone adopting Linux had to put up with constant hardware incompatibility issues. It's just that Windows was so bad that it was worth it. (I made the switch sometime around 2003, and have been Linux-only for more than a decade.) In contrast, there is no ob…

I am a pretty happy Windows user and developer since Windows 3.1.

My main reason to use Linux distributions was to be able to do university work at home.

After all I wouldn't be able to buy an Aix or DG/UX license, the UNIXes we had on campus before computing department started to deploy Linux based PCs.

I always dual booted and tried a few times to just use it as desktop, but eventually gave up on it.

My travel netbook and mobile devices are the only gear still running some form of Linux.

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#116

Post by pjmlp »

greenhouse_gas wrote: post #107
devit wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What they lacked is support for Android apps, since obviously expecting everyone to rewrite all apps for a new platform is a non-starter. If Mozilla had simply acquired LineageOS, worked on MicroG to reach feature parity with Play Services, added Firefox for Android and their own app store in addition to Google Play via MicroG, and resold flagship Android phones with that as well as offering it to OEMs, they would ha…

1. Companies distributing Google Play Services has to sign an agreement not to ship (or even build) a non-Google Android-derived phone. So, while Samsung may ship Tizen and Windows Phone, they may not build phones for Amazon (which caused Amazon a lot of problems back in the day - where will you find a company making portable electronics that will make them a white-label product and not making android phones). 2. Mic…

And yet they don't use that power to threat OEMs to lose contracts if they don't behave nicely regarding updates.

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#117

Post by michaelmrose »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #113
nasredin wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In addition to security. Linux and BSDs were not as polished usability-wise as Windows NTs before early 2000s. Just my humble opinion.

Still not. Just tried to schedule a disk check on reboot and had to scour a bunch of pages to find something that might work. No std msc or service manager gui available either. Some of these existed but were lost in a CADT.

Sometimes finding it difficult to do something is an indication you might have a suboptimal work flow.

You can get plenty of info about the health of the drive while the system is running.

There isn't much reason to run a filesystem check unless something is wrong.

Speaking of services it's extremely easy to query which services are running and enable and disable stuff. Plus there aren't 85 different things running.

If you insist you can run something like https://github.com/mmstick/systemd-manager

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#118

Post by erikb »

beeflaw wrote: post #61
erikb wrote: post #55

It seems to offer less than the average Android or iOS? Why should I use it?

If you have to ask, you probably shouldn't. It's for people who buy a phone for its low price, who don't care what the OS is.

If I buy a phone for ~60 bucks there is already Android on it. If I don't care why would I even install another one?

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#119

Post by pjmlp »

milesward wrote: post #62
pjmlp wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is a schizophrenic company. Just watch a few Google I/O tracks, and there is always the future of mobile apps is Android on the Android tracks, while the Chrome/Web tracks are pushing for the future of mobile apps is Web, with an occasional jab at native devs, as if on the room next door they weren't talking about native development. Then to make it even better, now we have Flutter as the third track. While PW…

...or there are just many different ways to solve for the massive variety of problems, and developers with a huge variety of backgrounds, and Google is trying to help them all? p.s. I am a Googler

Which is understandable.

What isn't so understandable is having a speech as if on the next door employees of the same company weren't exactly speaking the opposite.

I don't understand how in stage A one can speak how glorious the future of native apps is going to be, while on Stage B we are hearing how web apps are going to win the war against native apps and PWA are the path to it.

Re: KaiOS – A Smartphone Operating System

#120

Post by rhn_mk1 »

mirimir wrote: post #104
rhn_mk1 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An open alternative is the goal of the Librem phone from Purism.

Does it use closed-source firmware in the radio baseband? And is there a physical switch between the baseband and main system board?

The campaign page [0] says there will be a kill switch:

> Hardware Kill Switches for Camera, Microphone, WiFi/Bluetooth, and Baseband

but is somewhat unclear on the baseband firmware:

> The mobile baseband will most likely use ROM loaded firmware, but a free software kernel driver.

[0] https://puri.sm/shop/librem-5/

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