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How to retire at 30 on $1 million

ryanwaggoner.com

111–120 of 128 posts

Re: How to retire at 30 on $1 million

#111
post #53

Apparently, Florida Senate candidate Jeff Greene made a billion dollars doing just this, over and over again.

Not really :

"Greene began investing in real estate while in business school, and continued to build a successful real estate business. Greene went from being a bus boy at the Breakers Hotel in Palm Beach to being one of the most successful businessmen in the world. [8]

In mid-2006, Greene, worried about the possible collapse of the real estate market, spoke with John Paulson, a fellow investor who discussed with Greene his investing strategy. They agreed that the real estate market was unstable and a bubble might be forming in housing. After the meeting, Greene engaged in a similar investing strategy to that of Paulson, which involved a series of unconventional investments trading credit default swaps. The return on Greene’s investments ultimately saved his business, and even put him on the Forbes 400 list."

Re: How to retire at 30 on $1 million

#112
post #111
post #53

Apparently, Florida Senate candidate Jeff Greene made a billion dollars doing just this, over and over again.

Not really : "Greene began investing in real estate while in business school, and continued to build a successful real estate business. Greene went from being a bus boy at the Breakers Hotel in Palm Beach to being one of the most successful businessmen in the world. [8] In mid-2006, Greene, worried about the possible collapse of the real estate market, spoke with John Paulson, a fellow investor who discussed with Gre…

To be fair, he did get to somewhere around a half a billion before he started doing the credit default swaps. I can live with that :)

Re: How to retire at 30 on $1 million

#113
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you consider expanding on some of the nuts and bolts of hiring and managing those professional managers? I can't name anyone who's had a good experience with a management company on either side of the transaction but of course that's likely confirmation bias. A 'day in the life' of what kind of issues you run into with those properties would be fascinating (to me anyway).

I joined a firm that owned and operated a portfolio of around 1,400 mixed-use units after college. The firm was small and so I was able to get involved in almost every aspect of the business. In addition, I'm currently getting a M.S. in Real Estate. I suspect our firm had better success because we had skin in the game. Personally, I would have difficulty handing over those responsibilities to someone without a long t…

I'd love to talk further if you're game. mail@ryanwaggoner.com

Re: How to retire at 30 on $1 million

#114
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a point. I guess you can make a case that CT is an indirect wealth tax though it certaintly isn't intended to be. And of course the property value isn't re-evaluated on an ongoing basis so appreciation isn't reflected in the tax you pay during any given years liability. In my original comment what I was really trying to get at is that, as an investment strategy, you would want to maximise your wealth by mini…

No no, it's the same in the US and Canada. Wikipedia tells me it's around 1% for a £100,000 asset (in the UK). In Vancouver (Canada), I pay roughly 0.3%, so if anything the argument is stronger in Canada. While you were _technically_ wrong that no one taxes on the entire value of the property, I think your point still stands, because the property tax rates are so low. I believe that, in Canada, my trade-off looks lik…

Council Tax in the UK isn't a percentage of the value of the property. It's an annual charge which varies according to the bank your property falls in.

A local council sets the charge for 'band C' (I think) and the rest are calculated from that. (This then pays for rubbish collection, libraries, all that sort of stuff.)

If you're buying a property as an investment, council tax isn't hugely relevant. If the property is occupied, the occupant pays it. (Unless they're exempt, like students are.) If the property is empty you don't need to pay it for up to six months.

So the tax does scale according to the value of your property (ie, your wealth) and is an attempt at progressive taxation, but it's not a direct tax on that wealth.

If you're buying investment property in the UK, your tax liability is going to be income tax on the income and capital gains tax if the market value of the property has risen. In addition you'll have to pay Council Tax based on the property you're living in, regardless of if you own or rent it.

Re: How to retire at 30 on $1 million

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do raise a good point, in that you're in some sense risking your other assets as well. You can secure nonrecourse debt for real estate like this, though this is harder to do than it was a few years ago. But the other way to look at this is that you're going to risk the money one way or the other: either you risk it as indirect collateral by guaranteeing a loan at 80% LTV or you risk it directly by buying the prop…

The point is that it's disingenuous to say you're only using ~25% of your money to buy the property, when in reality all of your money is at risk, because you're leveraging. If you invest 25% in the stock market, you won't lose more than 25%. The returns on the real estate is higher, because you are leveraging. Just because 20% down payment real estate loans are common doesn't change that fact. I agree with the idea…

> this article has very little to do specifically with investing after a startup exit. The article should be called "Why to invest in real estate."

Or, perhaps it should be called "A plan for generating retirement-suitable income using approximately $1mm of capital".

Oh, hey, that's what it _is_ called (modulo some aggressive rounding).

I agree with the first paragraph, though, that if it does turn out that you have $5mm, and if it does turn out that you can't secure nonrecourse debt, then it is true that you're also taking on extra risk.

Re: How to retire at 30 on $1 million

#116

Seriously? You want to get into real estate in the middle of the biggest depression we have ever seen? When property values are still way over-inflated? This is only the start of the article's problems. The next thing he advocates is putting 20% down on a $6.5 million apartment complex, effectively leveraging 5 to 1. Leverage has no place in any retirement account, period! This entire article is a recipe for disaster…

"Be fearful when others are greedy and greedy when others are fearful." ~Warren Buffett Do you have any personal experience with multifamily real estate? It's valued based on the income stream, so unless the income stream is inflated, it's not really overvalued. And increasing population + more single-member households + fewer people buying houses now = more renters. Where the hell do you think all the people losing…

Yeah, I know Buffett said that but there's a reason why nobody is buying homes right now- they are still way overpriced historically compared to incomes. Anyone that tells you property never loses value is probably an RE shill or makes money somehow off the industry.

Re: How to retire at 30 on $1 million

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No no, it's the same in the US and Canada. Wikipedia tells me it's around 1% for a £100,000 asset (in the UK). In Vancouver (Canada), I pay roughly 0.3%, so if anything the argument is stronger in Canada. While you were _technically_ wrong that no one taxes on the entire value of the property, I think your point still stands, because the property tax rates are so low. I believe that, in Canada, my trade-off looks lik…

Council Tax in the UK isn't a percentage of the value of the property. It's an annual charge which varies according to the bank your property falls in. A local council sets the charge for 'band C' (I think) and the rest are calculated from that. (This then pays for rubbish collection, libraries, all that sort of stuff.) If you're buying a property as an investment, council tax isn't hugely relevant. If the property i…

Ah, thank you for the clarification, and my apologies for only reading every other word in the WP article before posting. ;) I didn't realize it was on occupied property, my bad.

Based still on wikipedia, I would describe this as a regressive tax. The amount to pay increases sub-linearly with increase in the value of the thing taxed.

In Canada, property tax is paid by the owner, not the occupant, and it pays for the same things (garbage collection, libraries, schools, etc).

Re: How to retire at 30 on $1 million

#118
post #70
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

how to you value the appreciation in somebody's house when the only meaningful way to value a property is to sell it? I think property taxes are fairly widespread in the US, actually. Your county has a group of assessors, who pick a SWAG based on comparable recent sales and -- ahem -- their desire to have the county generate tax revenue this year, and then you get to pay .8% or whatever of the assessed value in prope…

In California, Proposition 13 limits (among other things) reassessments to when the property changes hands or when there is new construction. Opinions vary on whether it's a good seal for the state. It's a great deal for me, though.

Doesn't it make it difficult to sell homes in high cost-of-living areas? Seems like you'd be taking a hit in the sale price to reflect the increased property tax burden on the new owner. I don't know whether you come out ahead, but it's probably more likely the longer you live there.

Re: How to retire at 30 on $1 million

#119
all [he] ever did was smash up things and creatures and then retreat back into their money or their vast carelessness.

—Fitzgerald, The Great Gatsby

I think I recently drove by a sign on the road that said this too. It was right next to another sign that read "Make Money Fast", and another sign that said "Get Rich Working from Home." However, a much wiser man than I once said: TANSTAAFL.

Now I know this is gonna get nuked, but I don't care because I can prove my point if you can understand me. Money is all you guys ever talk about here. Can we get more up votes on articles about oh say, extravagant assembly code or hardware hacks, instead of the daily echo chamber of TC driven $pablum?

IMHO everyone here, or at least the most vocal minority, is far, far too obsessed with making money. And the kind of money amount always being talked about is literally winning the lottery. Fools! You want to know why the American Empire has hollwed out and is about to fall? Everybody is a fucking true-blue believer that they deserve to be rich,at the expense of everything and everyone else! Why can't people just be happy with enough to get by? Spend time with your friends and family, stop chasing the bullshit ideology of conspicuous consumption which much richer and much more powerful individuals want you to believe in order to trap you into their completely distorted mentality, a simulacrum of un-reality! And those biggest fish only benefit themselves by getting everyone else to chase their white rabbit btw.

Here's my one "TED" wish: instead of the pursuit of money and winning the lottery, I want more of you super-smart, elite, "WEIRD", technophiles to spend the same amount of time & effort doing something intrinsically meaningful, creative, in the pursuit of knowledge for yourself or others, or sacrificing & helping those people in your communities who are disadvantaged, oppressed and less fortunate, or the noble purpose of doing something(anything!) because it is Right and nobody else seems to be doing that thing.

What kind of ignorant fuck truly wants to live the hollow lifestyle of a wealthy young aristocrat? You might think you're making sacrifices now for freedom from money later, but I, and every single philosopher going all the way back to Thales would warn the pursuit of wealth, for it's own sake, or for the sole sake of being "freed" from money, ends up becoming a tragic, inescapable anchor you will be permanently chained to in your life, and it will fully consume and ruin whatever goodness and potential you might have started with.

There is another way. Take only what you need, don't need much, give generously without regard, and redirect all your newly found free time & energy into efforts that truly matter.

Fuck you, Money!

Re: How to retire at 30 on $1 million

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is assuming stable economic and population growth. There are lots of rural and inner-city property owners who could provide a cautionary tale to this theory.

Unless he retired 20 years ago he's also talking in the context of the biggest property boom in history. Even after the current crash they're still significantly overvalued compared to their historic prices, once you take into account inflation.

In principle I agree. On the other hand, if he has a positive cashflow from the property it doesn't really matter what its price on the open market is.
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