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How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

theguardian.com

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Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#111

Post by Helmet »

balthasar wrote: post #88
Helmet wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is a moral failing in our country where the pursuit of money is seen as the objective optimal thing to do. But it's very reasonable to look at how money changes people, and to turn away from such a lifestyle in disgust. It's also very easy and PC to venerate the poor out of some misguided sense of pity or moral absolutism. One could look at poor communities, and, as you said "turn away from such a lifestyle i…

Its very difficult to convince people who are immersed in a certain way of living and a certain social order that there exists alternatives.

Class distinction and hierarchy are precisely the sort of social mechanisms that convince people that there exists alternatives to certain modes of living (class aspiration).

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#112

Post by losteverything »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #11
gorpomon wrote: post #7

I spent a summer in NYC a few years ago. While living in NYC I did get a flavor of higher class living with some roommates of mine. It really is true that there are unspoken codes and mores to follow, and it was uncomfortable when I didn't. However, this is one issue that's hard to put solely on the foot of the rich or a broader system. Passing in many avenues, not just by class, is really deciding you want to be the…

> It really is true that there are unspoken codes and mores to follow, and it was uncomfortable when I didn't Any examples spring to mind?

Forbidden talk list

Original Religion Sex Politics Money

Addition 1 Hitler & the holocaust Abortion Child care Adult care

Addition 2 Trump

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#113

Post by emodendroket »

gt_ wrote: post #77
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It really is true that there are unspoken codes and mores to follow, and it was uncomfortable when I didn't Any examples spring to mind?

The codes change regularly and different social cliques or professional verticals distinguish themselves by them, so they can be hard to Define. When in doubt: don’t be a tourist. Know how to pronounce the items on the international restaurant menu before trying to order them. If you don’t know, don’t ask out loud. Whisper into your rich friend’s ear so as to not embarrass them. Don’t speak about the unspoken codes e…

I think this level of timidity would make you stand out more.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#114

Post by confounded »

rb808 wrote: post #99

I disagree its a simple as class & money, there is no such thing as "the rich" or "the workers". Old money vs New Money, West Coast vs East Coast, South Vs North, Coastal vs Midwest, Lawyers vs Tech, USA vs Europe there are a million sub-classes of "Rich" and even more subclasses of working class esp in NYC. Yes I completely agree its very difficult to change your behavior/job/class like the guys in the article. Its…

It’s simplified, but aside from the subclasses which will exist within any group, isn’t it broadly accurate?

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#115

Post by stcredzero »

staunch wrote: post #3

> In the UK, class consciousness is woven into the national identity. In America, however, people often like to pretend that a class system doesn’t really exist. But, of course, it does. This is the most insidious part. The media in the US has historically been 100% controlled by rich people, and all major media still is. The evil rich people figured out that if you start a gender and race war among the 99%, you can…

The internet will almost certainly spawn a social movement to destroy the class system in the US.

Uh, have you been paying attention to campus protesters?

The US has gotten richer and richer, if it functioned properly everyone could have enough without resorting to any radical policies.

It's not quite that simple, due to human psychology. Even if people are wealthy on a global and historical scale, relative poverty will still cause problems.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3XYHPAwBzE

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#116

Post by afterburner »

zitterbewegung wrote: post #16

My Mom was a immigrant who came from the Philippines. My dad was a polish person. I raised my income and made more than them by a few ways. 1. Figuring out how to get a degree in Computer Science. (I chose a state school UIC) 2. Getting a Job in CS (I worked at the school I had classes from and then transitioned to a real job locally). The way I did it was taking my resume and applying to jobs I believe I was qualifi…

You forgot:

0. Having your parents immigrate to a country with better opportunities.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#117

Post by brandonmenc »

trowawee wrote: post #56
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It really is true that there are unspoken codes and mores to follow, and it was uncomfortable when I didn't Any examples spring to mind?

Not the author of the parent comment, but my family shifted from solidly middle-class to members of the 1% over the course of a few years in the early 2000s (my teenage years) as our family business became significantly more successful. Here are some of the things I've experienced that strike me as examples of that: - Talking specifically about money (how much high-ticket items specifically cost, how much anyone spec…

> Talking specifically about money (how much high-ticket items specifically cost, how much anyone specifically makes) is gauche.

This is not just a rich people rule.

I grew up solidly middle class, and you could hear a pin drop if you asked someone in the room how much they were paid or how much that engagement ring cost.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#118

Post by sjg007 »

rhizome wrote: post #78
gorpomon wrote: post #7

I spent a summer in NYC a few years ago. While living in NYC I did get a flavor of higher class living with some roommates of mine. It really is true that there are unspoken codes and mores to follow, and it was uncomfortable when I didn't. However, this is one issue that's hard to put solely on the foot of the rich or a broader system. Passing in many avenues, not just by class, is really deciding you want to be the…

If the next time a rich person gives you an askance look and you immediately ask them to explain themselves, guess what, you just equalized yourself with them socially without having to learn which fork to use first. Or you've shibboleth'ed yourself out by not already knowing what the askance look meant.

This is the outsider play. It basically works by default if you’re a foreigner (aka an American in England) or vice versa. Americans can get away with it via improv or social ability sure... less so if there’s a language barrier.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#119

Post by sloppycee »

ikeyany wrote: post #20

We love to talk about how being born a certain gender or a certain race shouldn't hold you back from achieving anything you want in America. But what if you are unlucky enough to be born into a poor family, or in a backwoods, downtrodden region of the country? My experience aligns with the author's. In movies and feel-good stories shared on social media, we romantically idolize the humble rich person, who came from n…

> ... look at how money changes people ...

I think the point of the article is that it's not that money changes people, but rather that change begets money; they are interrelated at least.

Re: How does ‘class-passing’ actually work?

#120

Post by kbenson »

stcredzero wrote: post #86
saget wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How you dress is very important. Knowing enough about current events and having your own, thoughtful opinion about them. Knowing a number of books and using them in conversation. Rules on when to be blunt are different. Never order a burger at a restaurant. I could go on but it's a hard thing to summarize. (source: was middle/lower class, now have many 1% friends)

Never order a burger at a restaurant. I've noticed that waiters/waitresses seem to treat me worse if I order a beer where I could've ordered wine. Especially when the cuisine is French or centered around steak.

I could see that. Luckily, craft brewing is getting so big that some places also have interesting beer selections presented almost like a wine list. Probably not French places though, or higher end steakhouses. :/
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