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9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

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Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#111

Post by mjevans »

majormajor wrote: post #47
davehtaylor wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the ideas aren't necessarily generalizable, but what if we shifted to an idea that people's individual schedules reflect when they specifically are most productive. Someone else who replied said they were most productive in the morning. Great! Let them have and earlier start time. For me, I'm completely useless in the morning. Sure, I can be in the office at 8:00am, but you're not getting any meaningful…

Yeah, 8PM to 2AM is tricky for the same reason as international teams since you might have zero face-to-face overlap with someone doing 10AM-6PM, but I've worked at three different places that were all fine with a less extreme version of that (noon-to-8, for instance, seems pretty common, or even 3-11PM for the occasional outlier). Ask around, look around, and discuss stuff like this before signing the offer if it's…

The way to make it not tricky is to be //remote friendly// in your work culture and get the interactions externalized and committed to information storage and dissemination systems.

Make processes phased and allow for multiple inputs (maybe blinded) during each phase, followed by a digestion step. Repeat this cycle until a strong consensus is reached.

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#112

Post by logfromblammo »

BalinKing wrote: post #98
core-questions wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to be really against DST, but honestly, it's the only thing that actually lets me see the damn sun at all in the winter, so now I'm a fan.

As someone who lives in Arizona myself, it is a bit strange to have (virtually) the rest of the world change their clocks without us... makes scheduling remote meetings difficult, if nothing else. (On the other hand, we don't have to worry about changing our clocks in the first place, so there's that?) For some extra fun, the Navajo Nation observes DST, and they're _inside_ Arizona.

For extra extra fun, the Hopi Nation, completely surrounded by Navajo, does not observe DST.

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#113

Post by jessaustin »

bovermyer wrote: post #91
colechristensen wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that bothers you, you simply aren't wearing proper clothing. The difference between a refreshing chill and a harrowing cold can just be an extra sweater under your coat and a good attitude. As long as it isn't very windy, it's easy to make 14 comfortable.

As someone who lives in Minnesota (and has lived in the upper Midwest for the last 14 years)... no, it's not just "proper clothing ...and a good attitude." Below a certain temperature, it hurts to be outside for any nontrivial amount of time. That is a strong disincentive to go outside, no matter how many sweaters you're wearing.

I think that "certain temperature" varies for different people, or even over time for any particular person. When I was a child the cold killed me. A few weeks ago, the highs were in the mid-teens all week around here, and I found myself completely comfortable in jeans, a sweater, hat, gloves, and a coat while outside doing farm work. The big problem at those temperatures is working up a sweat when wearing clothes that don't immediately wick it away from the body. That gets very cold quickly.

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#114

Post by bomb199 »

bovermyer wrote: post #91
colechristensen wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that bothers you, you simply aren't wearing proper clothing. The difference between a refreshing chill and a harrowing cold can just be an extra sweater under your coat and a good attitude. As long as it isn't very windy, it's easy to make 14 comfortable.

As someone who lives in Minnesota (and has lived in the upper Midwest for the last 14 years)... no, it's not just "proper clothing ...and a good attitude." Below a certain temperature, it hurts to be outside for any nontrivial amount of time. That is a strong disincentive to go outside, no matter how many sweaters you're wearing.

I feel like he's thinking of 14 Celsius, not Fahrenheit

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#115

Post by longerthoughts »

softawre wrote: post #92
tensor wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, a lot of people like to argue that getting up early is good for everyone, kids and adults. It's silly, but the "early bird catches the worm" people seem to run the world.

If the early bird people run the world, isn't that proof enough that it is good to be an early bird?

The problem is that whether you're an "early bird" or "night owl" is a matter of biology, not how early or late you choose to wake up (https://www.livescience.com/16334-night-owls-early-birds-sle...).

Because of the way school and work schedules are structured, you're right that it can give you an edge to be a morning person (I'm fortunate enough to be one). However, waking up early doesn't make a night owl an early bird - it makes them tired. The fact that people are split along these lines makes it questionable to enforce schedules that suit part of the population but leave the remainder strained and underutilized.

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#117

Post by goodcanadian »

logfromblammo wrote: post #44
davehtaylor wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's because people think "morning person" is the default, and correct, way of being. And that not being a morning person makes you odd or lazy. So when someone comes in challenging late-friendly scheduling, they're assumed to be the correct one, and that the workplace has somehow been in error by allowing later schedules.

It's the Ben Franklin Poor Richard's Almanac thing: "Early to bed, and early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise." He was also the buttmunch that gave us daylight savings time.

Why do you believe Ben Franklin had anything to do with daylight saving time? The only thing I've ever seen by him in regards to DST roundly satirized the idea.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daylight_saving_time

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#118

Post by khedoros1 »

adjagu wrote: post #55

This all sounds good unless you work a "shift" style schedule. Every single person I know works what is considered first shift (approximately 6/7/8/9am to 2/3/4/5pm). Some of them have tried second and third shifts, but they always go back to first shift because "second/third shift don't work for me" they say. Now for me I work better at night/early morning. Because of this I have worked third shift (midnight to 8am)…

I spend 12-15 minutes each direction, driving to and from work for my "first shift" job. I think I'd ask for 15-20% more if I had a 40 minute commute, and still resent having to drive that long.

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#119

Post by logfromblammo »

bovermyer wrote: post #93
logfromblammo wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the Ben Franklin Poor Richard's Almanac thing: "Early to bed, and early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise." He was also the buttmunch that gave us daylight savings time.

Context is important. You should read about why those two (completely unrelated) things came about when they did. For example, there was a period of history where it was much safer to drink beer all day instead of water. Without context, that sounds like a really bad idea.

To make a long story short, it was because you boil the wort when you make beer, and the kinds of beers that people drank all day were small beers and session ales, with lower alcohol content (and cheaper to buy).

Those things actually are related. Franklin proposed that Parisians could save on candle wax by getting out of bed earlier, as a joke. Nobody actually changed a clock until WW1 when Germany did it to save lamp oil.

Franklin likely promoted the lark lifestyle only because he was one, rather than from any real evidence of objective superiority. He participated in a business group that looked at successful businesses with an aim to emulate their practices. It is possible that his advice to work early was just cargo culting, in following with a long line of sanctimonious lark philosophers that painted their owl counterparts as slothful or lazy.

Standard business hours favor being a lark because those are lark hours! And then they have the nerve to be all chipper and cheerful every morning, at a time when every decent owl would prefer to be getting one last REM cycle in. How do you think they'd like it if we made them stay up past midnight every day?

Re: 9-5 Is Out. Try the 1-6 Instead

#120

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

davehtaylor wrote: post #104
colechristensen wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that bothers you, you simply aren't wearing proper clothing. The difference between a refreshing chill and a harrowing cold can just be an extra sweater under your coat and a good attitude. As long as it isn't very windy, it's easy to make 14 comfortable.

> As long as it isn't very windy, it's easy to make 14 comfortable. No, no it is not. And I say this as someone who enjoys the cold. No matter what, if it's 14 degrees outside, I'm only going out if I absolutely must. There's no hanging out in the parking lot during lunch in that kind of weather.

It's all relative. After a couple weeks of waking up to temperatures around or below 0F, the rise to the mid-teens felt like an early Spring.
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