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A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

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Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#111

Post by larkeith »

iamnotlarry wrote: post #41
giardini wrote: post #37

A few speed bumps at the intersection would slow drivers. Speed bumps are cheap and effective. You can lay several in series to encourage drivers to slow. It would be a shame not to use them in such an instance, where lives might be saved.

Speed bumps have proven to be undesirable tools in many situations. For instance, it is often the case that motorists will increase their speed after a speed bump to make up for the time lost because of the speed bump.

In this situation it's fairly irrelevant, as it would serve to slow down drivers approaching and within the intersection - a few mph faster afterwards is far less likely to come with a butcher's bill than continued high-speed crossings of the intersection.

Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#112

Post by porjo »

ajmurmann wrote: post #65
temp-dude-87844 wrote: post #8

There's a lot of math in this article about blind spots and car pillars and whatnot, but a Google Maps Street View appears to show the terrain and brush blocking the view on approach [1][2], making all of this math largely moot. That the drivers in question didn't even so much as slow down for this approach is beyond reckless, aside from the other lawbreaking that followed. The 'Give Way' sign is idiotic, put a Stop…

A roundabout is a much better solution than a stop sign. I still believe that the ubiquous stop signs in the US are there due to the oil lobby. Bringing a car to a full stop is incredibly wasteful.

I agree. A roundabout is also a much better than solution presented in the article, whereby traffic would have to turn across oncoming traffic in order to continue on their original track.

Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#113

Post by hvidgaard »

temp-dude-87844 wrote: post #8

There's a lot of math in this article about blind spots and car pillars and whatnot, but a Google Maps Street View appears to show the terrain and brush blocking the view on approach [1][2], making all of this math largely moot. That the drivers in question didn't even so much as slow down for this approach is beyond reckless, aside from the other lawbreaking that followed. The 'Give Way' sign is idiotic, put a Stop…

For low volume intersections, roundabouts are great at avoiding accidents.

Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#114

Post by kbart »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #103
ajmurmann wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A roundabout is a much better solution than a stop sign. I still believe that the ubiquous stop signs in the US are there due to the oil lobby. Bringing a car to a full stop is incredibly wasteful.

For cyclists, roundabouts aren't that much better unless we're given separate lanes. Motorists still tend to blow through roundabouts at speed if they can't see anything coming. From personal experience you can easily navigate a roundabout at 35+ mph.

"From personal experience you can easily navigate a roundabout at 35+ mph."

If a roundabout is small enough, you can't. I have seen many small roundabouts throughout Europe that you cannot navigate without swerving faster than 20-30 km/h (which is assumed safe speed for pedestrian).

Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#115

Post by rateofchange »

temp-dude-87844 wrote: post #8

There's a lot of math in this article about blind spots and car pillars and whatnot, but a Google Maps Street View appears to show the terrain and brush blocking the view on approach [1][2], making all of this math largely moot. That the drivers in question didn't even so much as slow down for this approach is beyond reckless, aside from the other lawbreaking that followed. The 'Give Way' sign is idiotic, put a Stop…

The math is wrong. It ignores binocular vision and normal head motion.

Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#116

Post by larkeith »

njarboe wrote: post #108
larkeith wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having lived near a very similar intersection, also with frequent accidents (it has a 2-way stop with heavy 50-70 mph cross-traffic and frequent left turns, depending on the time of day), cost may be a significant portion of the reason; a neighborhood campaign to replace the 2-way stop with a traffic light fell through due to a >$1 million price tag for adding a light to a countryside road, and it's doubtful a rounda…

A roundabout might cost less. I wonder how much of that signal price was getting grid electricity to the site.

Interestingly, there is a flashing red/yellow light there (similar to [1]) and plenty of houses/powerlines, so it shouldn't be the power costs. I imagine the price of buying and laying signal cable might be similarly expensive, however, as the nearest signaled intersection is about two miles away, if I recall correctly.

[1] https://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/other_topics/fhwasa...

Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#117

Post by ovao »

cmurf wrote: post #57
u801e wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US also tends to overuse stop signs when a yield (give way) sign would suffice. That is, if there is sufficient visibility of approaching traffic, coming to a complete stop is not necessary to safely yield to any conflicting traffic. Also, coming to a complete stop and then proceeding isn't sufficient to properly yield to approaching traffic. In the end, stop signs end up being treated like yield signs. The only…

Americans don't do yield signs very well except in the most obvious situations that shouldn't even need yield signs, like highway on ramps, and intersections with islands creating curved right turn lanes. Americans barely have competency at four way stops, the main way who goes next is figured out is someone launching from a rolling stop before the others. There's also often hand waiving, honking, and lights flashing…

I’ve personally rarely encountered issues with yielding. Four-way stops are another issue, and any driver in the U.S. has probably encountered them, but they’re solveable issues with basic driver courtesy. They assume basic understanding and cognizance to prevent incidents, but nothing more is strictly required.

The greatest number of accidents I’ve seen have been at stop lights rather than stop signs, weirdly. Driver apprehension and cautiousness at four-way stops may actually prevent more incidents than other systems.

Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#118

Post by ryandrake »

temp-dude-87844 wrote: post #8

There's a lot of math in this article about blind spots and car pillars and whatnot, but a Google Maps Street View appears to show the terrain and brush blocking the view on approach [1][2], making all of this math largely moot. That the drivers in question didn't even so much as slow down for this approach is beyond reckless, aside from the other lawbreaking that followed. The 'Give Way' sign is idiotic, put a Stop…

As a motorist, the 4-way stop is the most disruptive and maddeningly inefficient traffic control device in the municipality's tool chest. How much fuel and how many brake pads are consumed because towns just default to this kind of intersection. There are many better options (as others have listed in this thread) for almost all traffic situations. Always reaching for the 4-way stop is lazy and irritates motorists.

Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#119

Post by abecedarius »

matte_black wrote: post #4

Wow, after all these years I finally learned the name of this phenomenon, constant bearing decreasing range. I recall a scene in the movie Sin City where two cars crash and the camera was moving in CBDR to the perpendicular car as it zoomed into the impact site. I thought it was a cool shot. Also I’ve almost hit pedestrians several times when they were obscured by my A pillar. Sometimes I wonder if I would have actua…

It’s such a direct consequence of the principle of relativity that it seems weird to need a name fancier than “coming right atcha”.

Re: A Type of Road Junction that Kills Cyclists

#120

Post by wizzard »

ajmurmann wrote: post #65
temp-dude-87844 wrote: post #8

There's a lot of math in this article about blind spots and car pillars and whatnot, but a Google Maps Street View appears to show the terrain and brush blocking the view on approach [1][2], making all of this math largely moot. That the drivers in question didn't even so much as slow down for this approach is beyond reckless, aside from the other lawbreaking that followed. The 'Give Way' sign is idiotic, put a Stop…

A roundabout is a much better solution than a stop sign. I still believe that the ubiquous stop signs in the US are there due to the oil lobby. Bringing a car to a full stop is incredibly wasteful.

I have roundabouts in my neighborhood. They have the exact same problem. If you don't come to a full stop and/or look around your A pillar deliberately, you may never see the car or bike hidden behind it.

I've also had the same problem turning onto a crossroad without coming to a complete stop at the stop sign first.

I believe the only real solution is driver training.

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