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The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer

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Re: The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer

#111

Post by afpx »

namenotrequired wrote: post #19
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue with claiming that genetics causes the success of certain races is that there is greater genetic variation within races than between them, and that there has been no discovered correlation between certain genetic traits and success. Plus that kind of thinking can lead to racist discrimination, which isn't good.

> there is greater genetic variation within races than between them This is true, which is why we can only say something useful about averages between populations, but not extrapolate to particular individuals. > there has been no discovered correlation between certain genetic traits and success This is very false. IQ is largely genetic, and the biggest predictor of life success of any kind, especially in relatively…

‘Biggest predictor’ sounds like hyperbole. Though, if true, it would be useful to know. Money could then be directed to research and policy that helps increase IQ.

Re: The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer

#112

Post by alphonsegaston »

dominotw wrote: post #107
alphonsegaston wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. Admit the mistake in the feminist theory ( One is not born but becomes a woman). Feminists never made this mistake. It's literally the premise of one of the canonical Feminist texts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Second_Sex#Volume_Two

Yea I was quoting Simone DB, but I am not quite sure what you are trying to say.

How could you have been quoting Simone de Beauvoir and then positing that her supposition is a "mistake" made by Feminists? Seems paradoxical on its face?

Re: The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer

#113

Post by greenrd »

ioult wrote: post #51
dijit wrote: post #2

His childhood mirrors my own, although academic success is inverted. I wonder if there is some trait which transfixed us for life, I am certain that the interviewee (Gideon) and I are not alone. It also beggars the question. Although very non-PC. That were I a girl I would not be dissuaded from this course. I know this because there was literally zero support from anyone regarding computing as a hobby or profession.…

> It also beggars the question. Although very non-PC. That were I a girl I would not be dissuaded from this course. I know this because there was literally zero support from anyone regarding computing as a hobby or profession. In fact the opposite, they actively fought against it. That's not "non-PC" on Hacker News. A lot of people here belive that there are few to no legitimate reasons for women to not be programmer…

> What isn't PC on Hacker News is the idea that it isn't society who is against women as programmers, but the environment built by "us". That maybe it isn't this environment that is more accepting than all others, but that "we" just fit in.

I don't find your comment un-PC, because I fail to understand it. What are you trying to say?

Re: The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer

#114

Post by noobermin »

dominotw wrote: post #94
Niksko wrote: post #8

This article is going to rub lots of people the wrong way, I suspect, but it's level headed, well reasoned and well written. Although I ultimately disagree with some of the conclusions drawn at the end, (particularly: > Because contemporary moral codes delineate women as vulnerable or marginalised, we stop seeing them as individuals with unique talents and idiosyncrasies, but as representatives of a victimised class.…

> Because contemporary moral codes delineate women as vulnerable or marginalised Back in the day when social/legal barriers were removed for women, general expectation was that women would rise to the top in wide variety of fields. But that hasn't really materialized(eg: only a handful of noble prizes), despite decades of preferential treatment, despite women being educated in number much higher than men. So obvious…

>[...]despite decades of preferential treatment, despite women being educated in number much higher than men.

Decades isn't that long a time to overturn social structures that have existed for centuries.

Re: The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer

#115

Post by greenrd »

afpx wrote: post #111
namenotrequired wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there is greater genetic variation within races than between them This is true, which is why we can only say something useful about averages between populations, but not extrapolate to particular individuals. > there has been no discovered correlation between certain genetic traits and success This is very false. IQ is largely genetic, and the biggest predictor of life success of any kind, especially in relatively…

‘Biggest predictor’ sounds like hyperbole. Though, if true, it would be useful to know. Money could then be directed to research and policy that helps increase IQ.

> Though, if true, it would be useful to know. Money could then be directed to research and policy that helps increase IQ.

If I ever get really rich, that is what I plan to do. But the Flynn Effect has started to slow down or stop in many countries, indicating that we've plucked all the low-hanging fruits and we're running out of obvious ways to do that.

We'll probably fall down slightly in terms of average IQs in the population before IVF and genetic selection allows us redress the problem. Don't mention the E word (eugenics) though - germinal choice is a better euphemism.

Re: The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer

#116

Post by emerged »

fouc wrote: post #37

Does anyone feel anti-social after a full day of programming? I always suspected that programming can temporarily reduce empathy at the end of the day. I don't have asperger's but I often feel a lot closer to that after a really intense day of speaking a machine's language.

I remember experiencing this when I was a teenager and into early 20s. There is something of a mode switch between hyper rational programming mode and human mode. Making the switch rapidly is a learned thing IMO.

Re: The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer

#117

Post by CM30 »

digi_owl wrote: post #50
bobthechef wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what seanhandley meant was that the current obsessions and the particular form they take in the US is highly particular to the US and it is a mistake (often made by Americans and those in the Anglo-American sphere) to universalize and project this American phenomenon outward instead of understanding it as something bizarrely and uniquely American.

More worryingly, it seems that the "anglo" media is expert at exporting their world view to the rest of the world given time.

This is definitely an interesting point. There are quite a few people on social media sites acting like US specific outrages are somehow common to the whole world, despite their area not actually being affected by those issues (like police violence in the UK where it's mostly nonexistent). Seems the internet and popular media has given people the impression they're all Americans and that American issues and cultural norms are true everywhere on the planet.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EaglelandOsmosis

Or how in other cases, there are quite a critical comments on media from other countries because they don't go by cultural norms in the US, or what not.

Re: The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer

#118

Post by noobermin »

fouc wrote: post #37

Does anyone feel anti-social after a full day of programming? I always suspected that programming can temporarily reduce empathy at the end of the day. I don't have asperger's but I often feel a lot closer to that after a really intense day of speaking a machine's language.

Somewhat similar, but when I first started programming when I was 14, I couldn't listen to music at the same time, it just felt like I couldn't process something "creative" while thinking systematically. Now, I can and I feel like the music occupies the right brain and the hacking/analyzing occupies the left side, basically stimulating both sides of my brain.

There are intense focus sessions though where I turn off the music and after that, I can't talk to people in the hallway and they think I'm being cold. Outside of exceptions like that, it feels mostly like context switching I suppose, like the systemizing side turns off and the creative/human side turns on, or at least, gains control of the gears, so to speak. The best way I can describe it.

Re: The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer

#119

Post by noobermin »

ecshafer wrote: post #62
fouc wrote: post #37

Does anyone feel anti-social after a full day of programming? I always suspected that programming can temporarily reduce empathy at the end of the day. I don't have asperger's but I often feel a lot closer to that after a really intense day of speaking a machine's language.

I do not. In fact I love taking a break from programming after a long day and talk to people. I think they work different parts of my brain, so it's relaxing.

I think part of this depends on how introverted you are. I'm introverted, so after a long day of hacking, the last thing I want to do is burn more fuel talking to people.

Re: The Empathy Gap in Tech: Interview with a Software Engineer

#120

Post by amarkov »

tacomonstrous wrote: post #70
pgeorgi wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is if other societies also adopt the triangle for classes of people in the way the American society does. Not all countries have "affirmative action" laws, which essentially codify victimhood large scale - and also beg the question in which other bucket everybody else belongs. Add an intuitive and statist interpretation of the drama triangle (instead of acknowledging that the same persons can be in diffe…

>Not all countries have "affirmative action" laws, which essentially codify victimhood large scale - and also beg the question in which other bucket everybody else belongs. The US doesn't have any 'affirmative action' laws. It has non-discrimination statutes.

No, there are explicit affirmative action laws too. For example, some federal contracts are set aside for what are known as "8(a) businesses": small businesses owned by disadvantaged groups.
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