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Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

bloomberg.com

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Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#111

Post by workthrowaway27 »

qaq wrote: post #68
workthrowaway27 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are just making markets, so it's sort of 1 and 2. I say sort of because it means clients want to trade cryptocurrencies. They aren't necessarily high net worth individuals though. My guess is most clients are institutional, though it might be different with people wanting to trade cryptocurrencies. It's FOMO if you think not wanting to lose money to your competitors is FOMO. I'd say it's more just performing one…

"They are just making markets" are you seriously implying GS and JPM are just making markets :)?

Given that prop trading has been severely curtailed at investment banks, yes.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#112

Post by 52-6F-62 »

fitchjo wrote: post #54
52-6F-62 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget Jamie Dimon's company is founding their own blockchain for transactions, Quorum. https://www.jpmorgan.com/global/Quorum

Finding a use for the underlying technology supporting bitcoin is very different than saying bitcoin as a fiat currency is worth the value at which it is currently trading.

Undoubtedly. My comment was only meant to frame that he may have a vested interested in lambasting one implementation of the tech while promoting his own, and that he wasn't merely acting as informed commentator.

He can't be merely a skeptic when he's selling his own version to some of the largest banks in the world.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#114

Post by refurb »

vkou wrote: post #78
charlesdm wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why you need to have a clear exit point, not keep your money in forever. Fortunes were made (but also lost) during the dot-com bubble.

If Bitcoin were to crash, you wouldn't be able to exit. The exchanges would be overloaded, the price would collapse while you [1] can't trade, and you may also discover that some of the exchanges have stolen your money because they are insolvent. [1] Although some whale customers may be able to. They may win big - or at least, lose less, at your expense.

Exactly this. During the subprime crisis, even the big banks couldn't offload their risk.

It's crazy to think an amateur investor in Bitcoin is going to be able to "keep the exits clear". By the time you see the downturn those exits are long gone.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#115

Post by ringaroundthetx »

coldcode wrote: post #84

At the barbers today they were all talking about having bought bitcoin recently. When barbers start trading in bitcoin its probably the peak. In 1929 some people started getting out when the shoeshine boys started giving tips.

the reason for that saying is because by the time the lowest class of service workers is buying then there is nobody else to buy from them

Stocks and commodities spread through society that way, from the most well connected VCs down to the lower class when the price rise makes them feel like they have a chance to get rich after it is shown in their nonfinancial choices of entertainment

Bitcoin hasnt gone through society in this route

Existing hedge funds, VCs, University endowments and pension funds are legally incapable of buying cryptocurrency

They are all forming new LPs with new operating agreements to do so

There is no institutional leverage or credit in the cryptocurrency ecosystem

There are no derivatives to manage risk yet

The lower class will be selling to the institutions soon

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#116

Post by bmelton »

vkou wrote: post #78
charlesdm wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is why you need to have a clear exit point, not keep your money in forever. Fortunes were made (but also lost) during the dot-com bubble.

If Bitcoin were to crash, you wouldn't be able to exit. The exchanges would be overloaded, the price would collapse while you [1] can't trade, and you may also discover that some of the exchanges have stolen your money because they are insolvent. [1] Although some whale customers may be able to. They may win big - or at least, lose less, at your expense.

Between now and the event horizon, there may be considerable opportunity.

I mined some bitcoin in the early days, when you could solo-mine for a week or so and net coins. I had a handful of coins that I cashed out for less than $100, because I didn't like Bitcoin as a long-term investment. If I'd sold half, I'd have made a tidy profit off the sale of the first half, with another handful of coins that, even if they tanked, I'm still in the black. But, if they go to some ridiculous number, like $10,000, I'm substantially better off.

Needless to say, I didn't save half, but even for people buying in now (I'm not), could end up doing well, even if the trajectory of BTC is $15k, $20k, $45k, $0, Of course, if the trajectory is $15k, $10k, $5k, $0, they'll be shit out of luck.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#117

Post by awgneo »

coldcode wrote: post #84

At the barbers today they were all talking about having bought bitcoin recently. When barbers start trading in bitcoin its probably the peak. In 1929 some people started getting out when the shoeshine boys started giving tips.

I believe this article completely contradicts this belief.

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#119

Post by oculusthrift »

coldcode wrote: post #84

At the barbers today they were all talking about having bought bitcoin recently. When barbers start trading in bitcoin its probably the peak. In 1929 some people started getting out when the shoeshine boys started giving tips.

yeah.. my barometer is when the designers at my company started talking about it...

Re: Goldman Sachs Is Setting Up a Cryptocurrency Trading Desk

#120

Post by toomanybeersies »

ttul wrote: post #93
sytelus wrote: post #88

In gold rush, you want to be person providing services to people chasing gold, instead of being person chasing the gold.

Today, an 80-year old client of a friend's financial services firm wrote: . "Hi. Thank you for your excellent stewardship of my retirement savings all these years. You have helped us change a lot of things, and weather some pretty terrific storms like the Fall of 2008. I am now focused on a higher risk-reward trade off, and will be entrusting my son to invest my assets into the brave new world of crypto currencies. W…

The fact that he's gambling on bitcoin is not the only problem. As you near retirement (or in this guys case, are retired), you want to reduce your risk profile. If my life savings disappear in my young 20's, no big deal, I can rebuild them. At 80, if that money goes, it's gone for good.

I feel really sad reading this. This can only end in tears for people like this old guy, or the people buying BTC with their credit card, or the people taking out mortgages to buy crypto.

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