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Twelve Days in Xinjiang: How China’s Surveillance State Overwhelms Daily Life

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Re: Twelve Days in Xinjiang: How China’s Surveillance State Overwhelms Daily Life

#111

Post by stuffedBelly »

jruthers wrote: post #86

I'd really like to read more Chinese-from-China views on this kind of article. Although the content of the article scares me personally, it would be interesting to have more of a discourse about more plausible reasons why this kind of surveillance is "good" from a genuine different perspective. One mistake the Chinese govt makes is never explaining themselves in a plausible way so it always comes across as Orwellian.…

I am a non-Han (the Yi tribe to be exact) Chinese from China and grew up in a province next to Tibet called Yunnan. One of the reasons surveillance is heavier in Xinjiang is because of the East Turkestan Islamic Movement. They are basically the ISIS equivalent in China and have had carried out quite a few terrorist attacks.

One of the attacks happened in a train station in Kunming where my parents' home is close to and caused mass casaulty in 2014 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Kunming_attack). Surveillance in the Uyghur area has got a lot tighter since. Just like the Middle East issues to US and other western countries, Ugyhur issues to China are quite complicated. However, if the bottom line on stability/security of an area is crossed by a particular ethnic group (Uyghur Muslim in this case), maximum surveillance/crackdown would be imposed.

Areas such as Tibet, Xinjiang and Yunnan tend to get heavier surveillance treatment given their track record of independent movements. Yunnan once had its own independent military force called Dian Jun (滇军) but it soon got acquired by the Chengdu military force after the Sino-Vietnamese war due to trust issues between the Yunnan local government and the central Chinese government.

Re: Twelve Days in Xinjiang: How China’s Surveillance State Overwhelms Daily Life

#112

Post by cr0sh »

crdb wrote: post #26
jimmies wrote: post #5

I think one of the few really, really good things we have left in the US is that I _feel_ that I am trusted to do the right thing. I was in Singapore, a rich, orderly state for an internship a couple of years ago. There were cameras everywhere: Cameras on the sidewalks, cameras on the staircases, cameras in residential apartments, cameras in the subway, cameras at the workplace. There were very few places I feel not…

Funny how these things work... I've lived in Singapore for close to 7 years, have permanent residence, and it is when I travel to the US that I feel slightly uncomfortable. It starts with the immigration agent who sometimes feels the need to ask me questions for 20 minutes as if I were a criminal, there's the part where they get to look through all your social media accounts and hold you indefinitely, and then there'…

Something to note about cameras in the US:

The vast majority of them are private, not government. Those that are private, many are misconfigured, aren't recording, are broken (either the camera or the backend), or are just plain fake cameras.

The government ones are usually not much better: I've had incidents where I've asked about CCTV footage at a post office, and I was told the camera wasn't hooked up (granted, maybe that's a standard line unless you are a cop with a warrant or something).

In a similar fashion, I've had something like that told to me by security at an office parking lot (I think my car was run into or something). Of course, maybe that was just a CYA response standard to keep the management company from being liable in some manner...

I have cameras at my house. They monitor my yard and doors, and store events on my ZoneMinder server (which also emails me the events). I try to keep it in working order.

Finally, those that are government and monitored, etc - just like everywhere else - none of that footage is looked at until long after the fact of something happening. The real fear is with various facial recognition, gate recognition, and "threat recognition" software being used - identifying people as false-positives for innocent things (while missing the identification of actual threats).

Re: Twelve Days in Xinjiang: How China’s Surveillance State Overwhelms Daily Life

#113

Post by [deleted] »

jruthers wrote: post #86

I'd really like to read more Chinese-from-China views on this kind of article. Although the content of the article scares me personally, it would be interesting to have more of a discourse about more plausible reasons why this kind of surveillance is "good" from a genuine different perspective. One mistake the Chinese govt makes is never explaining themselves in a plausible way so it always comes across as Orwellian.…

[deleted]

Re: Twelve Days in Xinjiang: How China’s Surveillance State Overwhelms Daily Life

#114

Post by taobility »

nate_meurer wrote: post #105
hux_ wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American beliefs about their freedom are just that - BELIEFS. The underlying implication ALWAYS is the Chinese and Singaporeans or whoever can't think for themselves about what is good for their societies and therefore need American moral guidance and leadership. This is the same tactic the British/French/Spanish etc used to justify colonization. They needed a reason cause by the 18th century, most of the local popul…

Oh really, just beliefs? Is it merely my "belief" that I can publicly criticize our government in whatever way I want (short of threats) without fear of government reprisal? Is it merely my belief that no transaction with any bureaucracy, government or otherwise, has ever required me to pay a bribe, and that being asked for one would be offensive and probably just inconceivable to any American? Your defense of author…

You would also worry about be shoot when you walk on the street at night. You would also worry be bombed when you attend some concert, taking subway. Yes, you have your choice, and the other people also have their choice.

Re: Twelve Days in Xinjiang: How China’s Surveillance State Overwhelms Daily Life

#115

Post by taobility »

jeromegv wrote: post #69
thinkhard wrote: post #61

I'd rather be watched by surveillance camera than killed by extremists. How about you? It is inevitable; before 911 there was almost no security check in airports. Boarding was not too much difference than shopping in Walmart. This is one kind of insurance: most time accident is not happening, but when it happens it can be deadly. Life consists of compromises. Some are unavoidable.

How many people killed by extremists in the US last year? Are you suggesting that US should increase their security to the same level as China (and implement a police state) to avoid more extremists death?

You should talk to the relatives who killed by those terrorist. You wouldn't feel the pain as you still alive

Re: Twelve Days in Xinjiang: How China’s Surveillance State Overwhelms Daily Life

#116

Post by xster »

stuffedBelly wrote: post #111
jruthers wrote: post #86

I'd really like to read more Chinese-from-China views on this kind of article. Although the content of the article scares me personally, it would be interesting to have more of a discourse about more plausible reasons why this kind of surveillance is "good" from a genuine different perspective. One mistake the Chinese govt makes is never explaining themselves in a plausible way so it always comes across as Orwellian.…

I am a non-Han (the Yi tribe to be exact) Chinese from China and grew up in a province next to Tibet called Yunnan. One of the reasons surveillance is heavier in Xinjiang is because of the East Turkestan Islamic Movement. They are basically the ISIS equivalent in China and have had carried out quite a few terrorist attacks. One of the attacks happened in a train station in Kunming where my parents' home is close to a…

The CIA's overt branch NED doesn't exactly hide that they fund separatist movements in Xinjiang either.

Re: Twelve Days in Xinjiang: How China’s Surveillance State Overwhelms Daily Life

#117

Post by xster »

zipwitch wrote: post #67
kccqzy wrote: post #32

I have a friend who’s born in Xinjiang and she told me this kind of control goes far beyond just surveillance, physical control, ID checks and whatnot. In a very Orwellian way, it also extends to control of the mind. Schools, government agencies, and local companies have to have their students and employees routinely recite propaganda about “ethnic unity” and relevant official policies and conduct routine tests to ma…

America is much better about this sort of thing. Aside from a few obvious holdover examples like the Pledge of Allegiance and the national anthem, the US doesn't bother with such ham-handed, last century techniques. It's much easier to just coerce the media and get the public to consume the propaganda as entertainment. http://articles.latimes.com/2011/aug/21/entertainment/la-ca-... https://medium.com/insurge-intellig…

And the native culture is thriving. All tribal languages are taught at school. No child is being sent to resident schools and getting sexually abused. The native population is has lower rates of suicide, substance abuse, obesity, poverty etc.

Sorry, I had to.

Re: Twelve Days in Xinjiang: How China’s Surveillance State Overwhelms Daily Life

#118

Post by stuffedBelly »

xster wrote: post #116
stuffedBelly wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a non-Han (the Yi tribe to be exact) Chinese from China and grew up in a province next to Tibet called Yunnan. One of the reasons surveillance is heavier in Xinjiang is because of the East Turkestan Islamic Movement. They are basically the ISIS equivalent in China and have had carried out quite a few terrorist attacks. One of the attacks happened in a train station in Kunming where my parents' home is close to a…

The CIA's overt branch NED doesn't exactly hide that they fund separatist movements in Xinjiang either.

welp, what worked on the dissolution of the Soviet Union might work on China. It's a never-ending political game.

Re: Twelve Days in Xinjiang: How China’s Surveillance State Overwhelms Daily Life

#119

Post by mr_data »

kccqzy wrote: post #32

I have a friend who’s born in Xinjiang and she told me this kind of control goes far beyond just surveillance, physical control, ID checks and whatnot. In a very Orwellian way, it also extends to control of the mind. Schools, government agencies, and local companies have to have their students and employees routinely recite propaganda about “ethnic unity” and relevant official policies and conduct routine tests to ma…

Typical. "I have a friend" comment. So many propagandist comments on HN lately with "I have a friend" or "I have a coworker".

Re: Twelve Days in Xinjiang: How China’s Surveillance State Overwhelms Daily Life

#120

Post by kccqzy »

mr_data wrote: post #119
kccqzy wrote: post #32

I have a friend who’s born in Xinjiang and she told me this kind of control goes far beyond just surveillance, physical control, ID checks and whatnot. In a very Orwellian way, it also extends to control of the mind. Schools, government agencies, and local companies have to have their students and employees routinely recite propaganda about “ethnic unity” and relevant official policies and conduct routine tests to ma…

Typical. "I have a friend" comment. So many propagandist comments on HN lately with "I have a friend" or "I have a coworker".

Well yeah I get it that the HN crowd tends to have a love for hard data, but still I think HN is still a human community that welcomes anecdotes and personal communications. HN is not trying to be a strange comment-based Wikipedia where everything must be verifiable and objective. Telling stories is one of the oldest ways human communities thrive. But you don't have to believe my story; you could probably satisfy your curiosity by closing this tab and go read featured articles on Wikipedia.
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