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Things Many People Find Too Obvious to Have Told You Already

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Re: Things Many People Find Too Obvious to Have Told You Already

#111

Post by csours »

rhaps0dy wrote: post #92
blurbleblurble wrote: post #73

> Companies find it incredibly hard to reliably staff positions with hard-working generalists who operate autonomously and have high risk tolerances. This is not the modal employee, including at places which are justifiably proud of the skill/diligence/etc of their employees. This one. Every job I see when I go looking is 40+ hrs a week, likely with plenty of idle time and projects I don't believe in. Part of this is…

I think you framed your anecdotal evidence as supporting the OP's statement, but also that you misunderstood such statement; and you actually present evidence against it. If companies find it hard to reliably staff generalist positions, _and_ you're a generalist as you claim, then you would find it _easy_ to get a job.

There is a massive gulf between hiring and work. There's another massive gulf between what a manager asks for and what HR or recruiters ask for.

> "If companies find it hard to reliably staff generalist positions"

The process of hiring for this is hard. Finding people like this is also hard.

Re: Things Many People Find Too Obvious to Have Told You Already

#112

Post by WalterBright »

jasonlfunk wrote: post #4
wnoise wrote: post #3

> CS programs have, in the main, not decided that the primary path to becoming a programmer should involve doing material actual programming. Well, that's because CS programs are designed to teach CS, not to be a vocational school for programmers.

Yes. I often explained that CS was more like a math degree than an engineering degree.

Mechanical engineering, fluid mechanics, electronics, all have a common core of mathematical modeling techniques. An engineering degree is fairly flexible, and one can even pivot into CS. But CS has no commonality with engineering, and a CS degree cannot pivot into engineering.

Re: Things Many People Find Too Obvious to Have Told You Already

#114

Post by wmeredith »

saryant wrote: post #72
legitster wrote: post #69

This one had me stop >The explosive growth of the tech sector keeps average age down and depresses average wages. Compared to industries which existed in materially the same form in 1970, we have a stupidly compressed experience spectrum: 5+ years rounds to "senior." This is not a joke. I agree that it compresses the experience spectrum, but has the opposite effect on wages. It's tough to find any industry that pays…

I think he's arguing that the average wage in our industry is low simply because the workforce leans so young, so a disproportionate number of software engineers are still junior—and making junior wages—compared to other industries where the age curve is more spread out.

> the average wage in our industry is low

Is this a joke?

Re: Things Many People Find Too Obvious to Have Told You Already

#115

Post by jx2zhou »

auxym wrote: post #97
Danihan wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For fuck's sake, cut out the middle man and just request SAT / ACT scores.

I'm canadian so have never taken these tests, but I was under the impression that a large component of scoring well on them is cramming?

You're correct.

Re: Things Many People Find Too Obvious to Have Told You Already

#116

Post by rhizome »

csours wrote: post #111
rhaps0dy wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you framed your anecdotal evidence as supporting the OP's statement, but also that you misunderstood such statement; and you actually present evidence against it. If companies find it hard to reliably staff generalist positions, _and_ you're a generalist as you claim, then you would find it _easy_ to get a job.

There is a massive gulf between hiring and work. There's another massive gulf between what a manager asks for and what HR or recruiters ask for. > "If companies find it hard to reliably staff generalist positions" The process of hiring for this is hard. Finding people like this is also hard.

I got found by a ~10ppl YC company and the deal fell apart over $12K.

Re: Things Many People Find Too Obvious to Have Told You Already

#118

Post by WalterBright »

auxym wrote: post #109
hugs wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, an engineering degree is also like a math degree.

Meh, at least my (mechanical engineering) degree wasn't. Sure, you learn some mathematical tools that can help you solve some very practical problems, but it stops about there. I was not taught anything close to creative mathematical thinking. I was never taught the fundamentals of things: the axioms and the theorems on which the tools we "learn" are based on. I can guarantee you no one in my graduating class could r…

My engineering classes (Caltech) were nearly all applied math classes.

Re: Things Many People Find Too Obvious to Have Told You Already

#119

Post by sharemywin »

Danihan wrote: post #82
codingdave wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One would never refer to law school or medical school as "vocational". Sure you would. They are 100% vocational schools. Their cost, acceptance rates, time commitment, and difficulty level may be higher than other vocational schools, but that doesn't change what they are -- 100% focused on giving you the knowledge and skills to do a specific job.

Well then where are all the "vocational" CS programs at universities?

in the business college.

Re: Things Many People Find Too Obvious to Have Told You Already

#120

Post by ninkendo »

tikhonj wrote: post #83
wnoise wrote: post #3

> CS programs have, in the main, not decided that the primary path to becoming a programmer should involve doing material actual programming. Well, that's because CS programs are designed to teach CS, not to be a vocational school for programmers.

To be fair, they do a pretty bad job teaching CS too. Your average undergrad program is almost entirely learning about CS, not learning CS. A non-trivial of students get through a CS degree never doing anything novel in CS —a real shame because, unlike math, research-level CS problems are eminently accessible to undergrads. It doesn't even have to be "real" research: I just expect more than classes which have you reg…

> classes which have you regurgitate what you learned to pass

I think that's what school is, no?

I'm not trying to be glib, I think this is just a reality of how education works in pretty much all subjects (typical US academia, YMMV etc.) Can you name a major that doesn't work this way?

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