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New EU law prescribes website blocking in the name of consumer protection

juliareda.eu

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Re: New EU law prescribes website blocking in the name of consumer protection

#111

Post by Trombone12 »

arghwhat wrote: post #85
eksemplar wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any evidence to support your claims of corruption or are you just loud mouthing based on what you feel is true? I ask because the EU already has the ability to block sites infringe on copyrights. To me this law is one of the reactions taken to the fact that foreign powers are using completely faked news papers and social media pages to influence out elections. Right now consumers have very little ammuniti…

As a European, I find both the ability to force others to not distribute information, and the ability for others to restrict my access certain types of sites to be a disgusting violation of free speech. I would expect this in a certain country in Asia, not in bloody Europe. Not only does it violate free speech, the new ability to perform website takedowns bypass proper law and order, by not leaving any ability to def…

Wait, you advocate for a law that would grant citizens the right to rewrite server responses on the wire? Because the context here is action against sites where no physical or legal person associated with the site can be found within the EU, so its either blocking server responses or rewriting them in flight...

Re: New EU law prescribes website blocking in the name of consumer protection

#112

Post by majewsky »

zaarn wrote: post #102
majewsky wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's cute how you classify the Greens as opposition, and how you describe a party that just got 10.75% of the national vote two months ago as being liked by nobody.

The greens always oppose anything sane, hence opposition. I haven't yet anybody who likes the FDP, hence nobody likes them. But I'm Bavarian so I might have a huge sampling bias thanks to us being 60%+ on the CSU.

I haven't met anybody who likes the FDP either, but I'm conscious of that resulting from my social circle (which is heavily left-leaning). The poll results beat a single person's anecdata everytime.

Re: New EU law prescribes website blocking in the name of consumer protection

#113

Post by pas »

dalbasal wrote: post #99
nine_k wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you narrow down such powers?

D'you you prefer spam eggs bacon and spam, or bacon eggs spam and spam? I don’t like spam. :( I don’t know much about narrowing powers, judicial reviews or any of that. I’m not all that concerned with the EU’s specific legal setup (even though I live here). I guess judicial review is better than none, but I think it’s probably rather meaningless long term. What judicial review means and how restrictive that is is com…

>10 years ago ... No way to regulate the web.

That's just false.

China had their FW since 1997 in various forms. In their very effective form since 2006.

And that's just China.

There was always pressure to censor/block/filter/control the Internet.

The norm is what people make it. The same goes for rules. And narrowness and so on.

Currently, people are dumbfuck dimwits, like they used to be. But the issues used to be simpler too. Communism bad, world war bad, etc.

Re: New EU law prescribes website blocking in the name of consumer protection

#114

Post by Feniks »

arghwhat wrote: post #85
eksemplar wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any evidence to support your claims of corruption or are you just loud mouthing based on what you feel is true? I ask because the EU already has the ability to block sites infringe on copyrights. To me this law is one of the reactions taken to the fact that foreign powers are using completely faked news papers and social media pages to influence out elections. Right now consumers have very little ammuniti…

As a European, I find both the ability to force others to not distribute information, and the ability for others to restrict my access certain types of sites to be a disgusting violation of free speech. I would expect this in a certain country in Asia, not in bloody Europe. Not only does it violate free speech, the new ability to perform website takedowns bypass proper law and order, by not leaving any ability to def…

Free speech has never been absolute.

Re: New EU law prescribes website blocking in the name of consumer protection

#115

Post by [deleted] »

pawy wrote: post #82
eksemplar wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any evidence to support your claims of corruption or are you just loud mouthing based on what you feel is true? I ask because the EU already has the ability to block sites infringe on copyrights. To me this law is one of the reactions taken to the fact that foreign powers are using completely faked news papers and social media pages to influence out elections. Right now consumers have very little ammuniti…

Do you realise what Chaos you are bringing up on us ? Internet has always been full of shit. It's up to us to educate and teach people who are weak to this kind of behaviour. Black List websites = Censorship. Internet is not a product, it's our freedom. To all people who try to "regulate" this, piss off.

[deleted]

Re: New EU law prescribes website blocking in the name of consumer protection

#116

Post by eksemplar »

arghwhat wrote: post #85
eksemplar wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any evidence to support your claims of corruption or are you just loud mouthing based on what you feel is true? I ask because the EU already has the ability to block sites infringe on copyrights. To me this law is one of the reactions taken to the fact that foreign powers are using completely faked news papers and social media pages to influence out elections. Right now consumers have very little ammuniti…

As a European, I find both the ability to force others to not distribute information, and the ability for others to restrict my access certain types of sites to be a disgusting violation of free speech. I would expect this in a certain country in Asia, not in bloody Europe. Not only does it violate free speech, the new ability to perform website takedowns bypass proper law and order, by not leaving any ability to def…

How is that going though?

People aren't vaccinating their children, bringing back deadly disease that were almost wiped out in western society.

A rising number of people believe the earth is flat.

Two of the mos popular pro-Brexit sources on social media turned out to be fake accounts run by Russia.

America elected Trump.

I mean, those things aren't great but at least they won't wipe us from existence. Unlike climate change, which an increasing number of people think is an act of God...

I don't like totalitarian approaches, but your approach to "freedom" is not only rapidly ending democracy and the free society, it's quite literally going to kill us all.

Re: New EU law prescribes website blocking in the name of consumer protection

#117

Post by eksemplar »

pawy wrote: post #82
eksemplar wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any evidence to support your claims of corruption or are you just loud mouthing based on what you feel is true? I ask because the EU already has the ability to block sites infringe on copyrights. To me this law is one of the reactions taken to the fact that foreign powers are using completely faked news papers and social media pages to influence out elections. Right now consumers have very little ammuniti…

Do you realise what Chaos you are bringing up on us ? Internet has always been full of shit. It's up to us to educate and teach people who are weak to this kind of behaviour. Black List websites = Censorship. Internet is not a product, it's our freedom. To all people who try to "regulate" this, piss off.

As opposed to the orderly wold we live in now? I'm honestly done protecting the right to flat out lie and manipulate on the internet.

You may see that as an infringement on your free speech, but your approach to "freedom" is rapidly ending democracy in the free world. Keep in mind that the totalitarian voices you're using free speech to defend, won't show you the same curtesy, once they take over.

Re: New EU law prescribes website blocking in the name of consumer protection

#118

Post by shonenbat »

dalbasal wrote: post #87
seszett wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Limited to stopping pedophilia, piracy, nazis... Those are bridgeheads. I don't know if I buy this slippery slope argument. Nazi memorabilia and glorification have been banned in France and Germany for more than 70 years now, and these countries have not yet descended into fascism and further impeding of free speech and other points that we usually hear from offended Americans who learn about this.

That's kind of a straw man, I feel. At least, somewhat unfair. I didn't imply descent into fascism. I implied a descent into norms where the internet is more like TV or radio were. Historically, the web has been a uniquely free medium. There is also a commercial dynamic side to this. Regulations and restrictions favour larger, stabler, more normative companies. Also, I don't think slippery slope arguments lend too we…

The funny thing is, banning national socialism provides it with press, legitimacy and support.

I believe the forces banning national socialism are aligned with (and perhaps: funding) the forces supporting national socialism. They're both in favor of rigid societal control structures (although their methods differ) and the repression of free speech. Both the supporters and attackers of national socialism tend to be socialists, in the "communism" sense and not in the sense of "democratic socialism".

I'm not saying "Nazi", and that's not an "implicit endorsement" or a "dogwhistle". "Nazi" it is a 1920's slur invented by communists, based off "Sozi", a slur for socialists. I think it's a damaging and unproductive meme to call national socialism "Nazism", it's a barrier to discussion and understanding.

If "Nazism" was both the vilest expression of hatred and cruelty by humanity ever, and a movement that was at the time supported by a large number of humans, it must contain some pretty powerful ideas. Studying it would be useful if only to find out how it came to exist and how a resurgence can be prevented, and if you do so I don't think your conclusion will be "ban Nazism and just embrace Sozism". The reverse also goes for communism, by the way.

Re: New EU law prescribes website blocking in the name of consumer protection

#119

Post by atmosx »

seszett wrote: post #78
atmosx wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not yet, but if something doesn't change dramatically in the EU the countries you mentioned are on their way extremism (AfD, LePen)

Are you arguing that banning Nazi memorabilia is leading to the rise of far-right parties? I think these two things are completely disconnected from each other. What we're talking about here is legislation, and legislation has not slipped towards censoring free speech more and more in the last seventy years (in France and Germany).

> Are you arguing that banning Nazi memorabilia is leading to the rise of far-right parties?

No I'm not. Your statement is so far off that I can't help myself but wonder how did you arrive to this conclusion?!

Re: New EU law prescribes website blocking in the name of consumer protection

#120

Post by atmosx »

zaarn wrote: post #79
atmosx wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not yet, but if something doesn't change dramatically in the EU the countries you mentioned are on their way extremism (AfD, LePen)

The AfD has no real power in Germany. They may have swayed a few votes but in one or two legislation periods their voter base will have been quietly absorbed into the establishment (CDU and SPD) or the opposition (Greens, The Left) or the parties nobody likes (FDP). Basically none of the other parties in the government want to even consider cooperating with them, it'll fizzle out soon enough.

Before the Nazi Party came to power, it took part on several elections: 6.4% and 3% in 1924, 2.6% in 1928, 18% in 1930, and 37% and 33% in 1932 (came 1st) and 44% in 1933.

A party doesn't come out of nowhere. It takes time. In 2013 AfD missed the 5%, but not by much. In 2017 has 13% and is the third largest party in Germany. Saying that it'll fizzle out soon is naive at best.

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