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Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

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Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#111
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same goes for US individuals living abroad not having any business relations or even holdings in the US. Yet they are required to file and pay US taxes in addition to local taxes.

Moving abroad, I now fully understand the feeling behind "Taxation without representation is tyranny".

You are welcome to give up your American citizenship if that income tax becomes too burdensome for you.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#112
post #80

What annoys me the most is that, as a small company, I can't evade from my country tax system. I pay the taxes. All of them, at full rate. But there are these big companies which can afford to create offshore companies/holding just to evade some tax system, and lower their tax rate. So, what? The tax rate of a country is now "artificial", because it will never be applied to all revenues from all companies, because th…

Apple do pay their taxes just like you for everything they sell in the US. It's what they sell outside of the US that they don't pay, but they do pay in those other countries. The biggest unfair advantage they have against you is if you sell to overseas markets (you're paying US tax, not them) but if your market is US only then Apple isn't paying less than you are.

I am speaking for the tax rate in EU countries, what is quoted in the related article. Regarding revenues in EU countries and moving expenses/royalties between countries to benefit from the lower rates.

I think that the same cases exists in the US, between states themselves (Delaware ?). Where you create companies in multiple states depending on your activity to split your revenues. Again, a small company can't afford such tricks.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The social responsibility part is what it is all about. If corporations use their legal and bargaining power to opt-out of the social contract then everybody will lose. There is such a thing as being too big and I firmly believe that most multinationals are no longer playing by the rules in the sense that they violate the spirit of those rules whereever they can by focusing solely on the letter of the rules. That's a…

What's to be done about it? We're the ants. That depressing truth has a way of manifesting. I'm not quite sure what to feel about it. Our attempts here are futile. We're not going to get any legislation passed. The fact is, companies can opt out of the social contract. They are big, and they're going to play by different rules. But I don't think that's strange -- that's just life. It happens in China and Russia. Why…

You can still live with choosing to not buy any iphone or mac book stuff.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#114
post #99
post #80

What annoys me the most is that, as a small company, I can't evade from my country tax system. I pay the taxes. All of them, at full rate. But there are these big companies which can afford to create offshore companies/holding just to evade some tax system, and lower their tax rate. So, what? The tax rate of a country is now "artificial", because it will never be applied to all revenues from all companies, because th…

By default, big companies always get preferential treatment from governments. Open a mega-factory? They get tax cuts, cheap real estate, free utilities. Why? Those shiny new jobs look great on a politician's resume for the next election... What does the little business guy get? A letter of "don't forget to pay your taxes in full or else" It's time to accept the fact that governments are NOT a fair and impartial warde…

Yes, it is like wholesellers vs. retailers. Governments don't like to spend time talking with zillion of companies when they can talk with the few ones.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#115
post #99
post #80

What annoys me the most is that, as a small company, I can't evade from my country tax system. I pay the taxes. All of them, at full rate. But there are these big companies which can afford to create offshore companies/holding just to evade some tax system, and lower their tax rate. So, what? The tax rate of a country is now "artificial", because it will never be applied to all revenues from all companies, because th…

By default, big companies always get preferential treatment from governments. Open a mega-factory? They get tax cuts, cheap real estate, free utilities. Why? Those shiny new jobs look great on a politician's resume for the next election... What does the little business guy get? A letter of "don't forget to pay your taxes in full or else" It's time to accept the fact that governments are NOT a fair and impartial warde…

Those with wealth will always try to capture the system - whether its formal or informal. The natural state of any business is to try and become a monopoly because that maximizes rent taking ability - NOT competition.

Practically the ONLY power able to stop monopolies from forming is the government. In absence of the government's ability to "meddle", businesses can and will cut deals with big competitors and squelch smaller ones through anti competitive practices to dominate

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#116
post #80

What annoys me the most is that, as a small company, I can't evade from my country tax system. I pay the taxes. All of them, at full rate. But there are these big companies which can afford to create offshore companies/holding just to evade some tax system, and lower their tax rate. So, what? The tax rate of a country is now "artificial", because it will never be applied to all revenues from all companies, because th…

Playing devils advocate here:

> What annoys me the most is that, as a small company, I can't evade from my country tax system. I pay the taxes. All of them, at full rate.

How about a startup providing "tax-optimization" for the masses? Keep a cut of the money saved: win-win. Or win-win-lose, if you include the state.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#117
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can safely assume that Trump pushing for a tax amnesty does not have small-time shareholders of public companies in mind. I'd look a little closer at his inner circle where the major beneficiaries of such a move reside.

I'm not discussing who is benefiting from this but the odds of it happening. Also if this benefits Apple shareholders, I doubt this is Trump-clan only.

Trump's score for 'getting things done' is not such that I really worry about this. Maybe if he stopped alienating everybody that this would change but I do not believe he is capable of changing himself in such a fundamental way.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#118
post #8

Dear Herr Krach, thank you for your letter. I think you misunderstand how business works. Apple is a profit seeking corporation. Profits we make, we hope to distribute to our shareholders. Paying taxes is an obligation with which we comply, both to the letter and in spirit. We meet such obligations, but not nilly-willy. Our shareholders would not look kindly upon executives who pay more taxes than necessary. Avoidanc…

> Paying taxes is an obligation with which we comply, both to the letter and in spirit.

No. You're following it to the letter only, and that's the problem.

> Governments should fix tax evasion, not corporations.

Globalization has ensured that multinational corporations cannot be dealt with by national governments. You know it well, since you worked hard for decades to make it so, Timmy.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#119
post #80

What annoys me the most is that, as a small company, I can't evade from my country tax system. I pay the taxes. All of them, at full rate. But there are these big companies which can afford to create offshore companies/holding just to evade some tax system, and lower their tax rate. So, what? The tax rate of a country is now "artificial", because it will never be applied to all revenues from all companies, because th…

Apple do pay their taxes just like you for everything they sell in the US. It's what they sell outside of the US that they don't pay, but they do pay in those other countries. The biggest unfair advantage they have against you is if you sell to overseas markets (you're paying US tax, not them) but if your market is US only then Apple isn't paying less than you are.

>but they do pay in those other countries

No, they do not. That is, they have optimized their rates so well as to pay next to nothing.

Incidentally, this is the problem with repatriating those profits to the US: the IRS actually does recognize taxes that have already been paid and will "deduct" (don't know the exact technical mechanism, but that's the gist) the taxes that have already been paid to foreign tax authorities from the taxes due to the US. However, due to the tax "optimization" that's been happening, the actual tax paid is minuscule, and so the tax due on repatriation is substantial.

So what Apple and other US multinationals would prefer is for the "tax already paid" to be a boolean rather than an amount. As in "we already paid 0.00004% tax on this, therefore it is already taxed and the IRS gets nothing", whereas the IRS says "well you paid 0.00004%, so we get (US rate - 0.00004%)".

Of course, the corps call this "double taxation" and rail against it, but in fact double taxation is not happening, or only in that very warped sense.

Re: Paradise Papers: Dear Tim Cook

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The social responsibility part is what it is all about. If corporations use their legal and bargaining power to opt-out of the social contract then everybody will lose. There is such a thing as being too big and I firmly believe that most multinationals are no longer playing by the rules in the sense that they violate the spirit of those rules whereever they can by focusing solely on the letter of the rules. That's a…

What's to be done about it? We're the ants. That depressing truth has a way of manifesting. I'm not quite sure what to feel about it. Our attempts here are futile. We're not going to get any legislation passed. The fact is, companies can opt out of the social contract. They are big, and they're going to play by different rules. But I don't think that's strange -- that's just life. It happens in China and Russia. Why…

The only realistic thing I see is if enough employees at a company start an effort then maybe one of the large tech companies can be a leading light in exposing tax loopholes and try to inflict PR damage on other companies that use them.

We are not ants, the users of this board are often really important parts of the largest companies that exist today.

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