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Millennials to Small Cities: Ready or Not, Here We Come

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Re: Millennials to Small Cities: Ready or Not, Here We Come

#111

Post by jimmaswell »

namlem wrote: post #88
jimmaswell wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like if all work was suddenly remote, city residency would drop at least 50% in a week. I hope remote eventually becomes the norm. There are probably a lot more like me out there who even in their 20s only work in a metro area solely out of necessity. I have a hard time imagining that all these people I see on HN pining for city living and making suburbs out to be worse than prison are more than a vocal minori…

I don't agree. Super dense cities like New York might fall out of favor, but smaller cities will still be attractive. Being able to walk to wherever you want to go is very nice. In the suburbs you have to drive 10 minutes to get anywhere, which is quite annoying. Maybe that will change once self driving cars become the norm though.

Whenever I've been to baltimore, it took around 10 minutes just walking this distance, adding in waiting at road crossings: https://i.imgur.com/Vxnt9cq.png

Re: Millennials to Small Cities: Ready or Not, Here We Come

#112

Post by psadauskas »

avenoir wrote: post #84
psadauskas wrote: post #47

I did not ever expect to see my old hometown of 30k people on HN. Growing up there in the 80s and 90s, it was a nice enough place, but basically 0 tech jobs outside of doing basic IT or support. My parents still live there (my dad an EE at the mentioned Cummins), but the fortunes of the town are tied to Cummins' stock price. They've done a lot to revitalize the downtown in the last decade, it used to be pretty run do…

Denver and surrounding areas will be unaffordable in the next few years, much like San Francisco today. It's a good time to buy property now and see it double in value.

Yep! The only way I'm able to afford this house is because I'm selling the house I bought 5 years ago for 50% more than I paid for it. So many of my friends and colleagues, even in the tech industry, the 20% down payment they're saving for is going up faster than they're able to save for it. I don't think this is sustainable for much longer.

Re: Millennials to Small Cities: Ready or Not, Here We Come

#113

Post by always_good »

JBlue42 wrote: post #102
sscarduzio wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m saying to conduct a 100% online us/eu based business. You get 6 months visa for Mexico anyway. Get yourself an American style condo in Cancún and that’s it. Mexico is not all uniformly violent, unlike US.

The violence seems avoidable but is bad Internet? I've heard its not so great down there.

No worse than the pitiful connections I had over the course of 7 years in Austin. American internet is not a high bar.

Re: Millennials to Small Cities: Ready or Not, Here We Come

#114

Post by humanrebar »

Johnny555 wrote: post #107
humanrebar wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't feel too guilty. Most of these small towns are in areas where people can move outside of town a bit if they don't care to be gouged. With minimal impact on commute times. Though amenities like affordable high speed internet drop off pretty precipitously if you get too far out.

With minimal impact on commute times That works up to a point, but eventually as more people move out of downtown to less expensive suburbs, roads start to clog and the community can't afford the billions of dollars it would take to build more freeways or public transit.

In small towns businesses are also often smaller and it's easier to get the boss or owner to OK a work schedule that avoids rush hour traffic.

Re: Millennials to Small Cities: Ready or Not, Here We Come

#115

Post by psadauskas »

ctennis1 wrote: post #91
psadauskas wrote: post #47

I did not ever expect to see my old hometown of 30k people on HN. Growing up there in the 80s and 90s, it was a nice enough place, but basically 0 tech jobs outside of doing basic IT or support. My parents still live there (my dad an EE at the mentioned Cummins), but the fortunes of the town are tied to Cummins' stock price. They've done a lot to revitalize the downtown in the last decade, it used to be pretty run do…

I think you'd be surprised. I moved to Columbus in the early 2000s after college from another Indiana city. Perhaps I have blinders on, but I don't ever recall any casual racism or homophobia. If anything I'd say it's a more progressive city than many other small conservative midwestern towns. There is considerable diversity in the city, given that many of the engineers who live here have come from other countries. T…

Oh sure, Columbus is way more progressive than just about anywhere else in southern Indiana, save Bloomington (home of Indiana University). But still, my high school graduating class of 350 had one black kid and a couple Hispanics. There were more Japanese than any other minority, and that was because Cummins had hired their parents from the manufacturing powerhouses there.

Several of my friends had lived their entire lives in the area, the type of family where both of their grandparents lived within 30 minutes, and they had no will or desire to leave and explore the rest of the country. Most of them grew up in racist and homophobic families, so making remarks and jokes was commonplace. It didn't seem so at the time, but now having left I realize just how rampant it was, and I'm actually a little ashamed to have taken part in it.

Re: Millennials to Small Cities: Ready or Not, Here We Come

#116

Post by lordCarbonFiber »

jimmaswell wrote: post #110
lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im pretty sure it's the opposite direction. The economies of scale make it so cities have above and beyond more amenities than the suburbs ever could. Be it food, culture, access to jobs/networks, or even just the dating pool working remotely in a huge house in the middle of nowhere really can't provide a substitution. Living isolated far away from civilization might be appealing to some, but I'd put money on the ide…

>I can't see any benefit to leaving the city. There's less crime, driving is viable (what do you do if you want to bring home a large item from a store in a city?), your surroundings are actually nice to look at, it's quieter, establishments aren't crowded, some people don't like walking all day, you can play loud music or whatever in your home without a noise complaint if you don't live right next to anyone, and pri…

As a base line, this is my mental model for suburban living: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence,_South_Carolina

Less crime in absolute maybe, but it's a toss up as to crime per-captia. Driving being viable is just a twisted way of saying driving is required; a strong con for many people including myself (and eats away at all of those real estate savings when you've got car payments and insurance). You just buy online and ship for most large items; rent a van for everything else. Lack of walking is another con; there's a reason the south sports 40% obesity rates.

The special thing about "city food" is the diversity. Small populations can't support a plurality of niche restaurants and vendors.

Being "away from civilization" I'll admit is subjective, but I don't think at all disingenuous. In the city we have touring bands, brand new stage productions, top of the line art museums, screenings of foreign films, a thriving music scene, and, perhaps most importantly, the ability to meet and learn from people from all over the world. Giving that up for an HOA and yard work seems like a raw deal.

Re: Millennials to Small Cities: Ready or Not, Here We Come

#117

Post by Chiba-City »

jimmaswell wrote: post #60
athenot wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Affordable housing and good salaries are usually on the conflicting ends of the same scale. A place that has high-paying jobs will have residents out-bidding each other, driving up the prices of the housing market. Conversely, super cheap housing is usually an indicator that there really is no demand from affluent residents. As a counter-point to what I just said, more and more information-based jobs can be done remo…

I feel like if all work was suddenly remote, city residency would drop at least 50% in a week. I hope remote eventually becomes the norm. There are probably a lot more like me out there who even in their 20s only work in a metro area solely out of necessity. I have a hard time imagining that all these people I see on HN pining for city living and making suburbs out to be worse than prison are more than a vocal minori…

I disagree entirely. Every minute wasted in transit is wasted. I was lucky to make the most of a private school scholarship (Baltimore) and received overlapping theater, voice, writing, instrumental and athletic training alongside academic training and "gifted" early science training provided by state government. From city centers like Boston and DC I was exposed to the world many Americans only know through pictures or books.

Nothing is more damaging to adults or children than lives in remote isolation with delusions of Swiss Family Robinson self-sufficiency on government road, school and mortgage subsidies. We must stop claiming any normalcy to that post-Eisenhower makeshift accounting fiction. Lives in remote isolation are one of the reasons business formation is so low in the United States. Shyness is never any value. Shy people are takers.

Re: Millennials to Small Cities: Ready or Not, Here We Come

#118

Post by novaRom »

aphextron wrote: post #63
novaRom wrote: post #26

Move abroad. That's simple. Lots of places with much better quality of life. European Union is terrific place: multiple nations, different climates, various cultures, freedom of speech, parlamentary democracy, clean ecology, safety, good education, inexpensive housing.

I would love to live in Europe if there were any possibility of making a good living at what I do. Comparable level positions I've seen are in the $30-40k USD range for my six figure position in SF. I can't understand why developers are so poorly paid over there.

Software engineer in Munich, salary $120k, it's around $6k per month after taxes, healthcare, pension fund; 30 days paid vacation; 11 months paid parental leave; $2k rent for a big new 3 bedroom in city center, $500 for day care. Free schools, short commute, lots of inexpensive free time perks.

Re: Millennials to Small Cities: Ready or Not, Here We Come

#119

Post by jknoepfler »

eric_b wrote: post #75
jknoepfler wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not precisely true. Because we live in a democracy, citizens of local governments can collectively vote to levy additional funds for local schools. I agree that federal and state funding should obviate this, but there's nothing intrinsically undemocratic about the current system. (Unfair or badly designed != undemocratic). Some of the best public schools in the nation exist where I grew up in the Minnesota sub…

Minneapolis spends an obscene amount per pupil on students, with the number getting HIGHER in the bad districts: http://www.startribune.com/where-minneapolis-public-schools-... North Minneapolis has bad outcomes not because of lack of money, that's for sure.

Yeah, it's a tough problem. I did Americorps work in some of the poorer elementary schools in St. Paul, and one of the biggest problems those schools face is that they have very high special needs burdens that they have to meet before they can deal with the general population, and those are incredibly costly. That said, I completely agree with you that there are a lot of problems facing students in Northeast Minneapolis that hurt outcomes that have nothing to do with funding.

I mean at the end of the day, kids like myself had well-educated parents who read to us every night, did math problems with us, and provided the scaffolding for learning long before we hit school (most of primary education was a waste, at best review). There's no substitute for that.

The experience of tutoring badly off kids in poor neighborhoods was one of the more heartbreaking experiences of my life. The inertia in the students is palpable after about age nine.

That said, I still struggle to call the distribution of effective resources "equitable," and I'll happily foot a tax bill to double education spending until the generational poverty problem is mitigated to a much greater degree (although I suspect non conventional methods might have better returns).

Re: Millennials to Small Cities: Ready or Not, Here We Come

#120

Post by AndrewGaspar »

drharby wrote: post #67
AndrewGaspar wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrestled with the same thing recently, moving from Seattle-area to Santa Fe, NM to be closer to my in-laws. It only worked because there was a singular employer who paid approximately what I had grown accustomed to. I think it is going to work out, especially since my wife has better prospects than she did in Seattle, but there's definitely a risk working somewhere that has few other competitive employers in the ar…

Would you mind sharing who that employer was? Sandia Labs? I'm considering moving to NM for family reasons

Los Alamos Labs. Maybe there's technically two employers if I'm willing to drive south instead of north. :)
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