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Adding Kubernetes support to the Docker platform

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Re: Adding Kubernetes support to the Docker platform

#111

Post by dawnerd »

oweiler wrote: post #104
amouat wrote: post #12

This really helps with the dev-to-production story for containers. When people first started using Docker containers, we were promised things would run identically in dev and production - no more "but it worked on my laptop" issues. Then the rise of orchestrators meant that there again became a significant difference between running an app locally (in compose) and in production (on Kubernetes). Docker for Mac/Windows…

Docker for Windows is pretty much unusable at the moment.

Did they ever fix file change events? Last I tried it you had to do polling which was far from ideal.

Re: Adding Kubernetes support to the Docker platform

#112

Post by zenlikethat »

kozikow wrote: post #106
InTheArena wrote: post #53

Great news for everyone except for VMWare (this is a simple compelling operating system for data centers that spans both windows and mac) and Openshift (which was one of the few viable ways of actually purchasing Kubernetes support). A lot of egos on both sides had to be suppressed to make this happen. Docker Swarm was a key driver in making Kubernetes popular because everyone realized that they needed swarm, but the…

> or a continuing push to marginalize docker by the Kubernetes folks. It's not like kubernetes folks very pushing to marginalize docker for bad reasons. docker runtime was one of the bottlenecks of kubernetes in production and docker inc didn't feel like improving it. Hopefully, it is changing now. There are some technical decisions in docker that could provide similar functionality with better production support. I…

That's always been the struggle Docker engine had though - people demand it to be "production ready" and stable but also criticize it for not "innovating" enough technically. Docker didn't always do the best job prioritizing stability over features to be sure, but they did do a good job pushing critical innovations like registry v2 forward.

Re: Adding Kubernetes support to the Docker platform

#113

Post by zenlikethat »

InTheArena wrote: post #82

There is some real meat here, and things that should have been done long ago. A key thing is that the Docker network drivers (libnetwork) are becoming CNI compatable. This will vastly simplify one of the worst aspects of setting up Kubernetes, and ensure a consistent network space across containers, even if a given container is not in kube. That's nothing but awesome. https://github.com/docker/libnetwork/pull/1978/fi…

Yeah setting up networking has been one of the worst parts of using Kubernetes in my limited experience -- just using default Docker networking would be sweet.

Re: Adding Kubernetes support to the Docker platform

#114

Post by kozikow »

I use minikube for dev and it's pretty good. My description of my minikube+pycharm setup: https://kozikow.com/2016/09/16/using-pycharm-docker-integrat... .

The only problem I didn't solve yet is debugging python code running in kubernetes using pycharm. If I run a container in pycharm using "Debug..." dialog it launches inside "docker context" rather than "kubernetes context". For example, I can't connect to kubernetes services via their ClusterIP - the container launched via pycharm does not see it. The only solution I found is using docker compose to set up an environment similar to kubernetes and using docker compose from pycharm. Hopefully, this announcement from docker will simplify this story.

Re: Adding Kubernetes support to the Docker platform

#115

Post by smarterclayton »

raesene6 wrote: post #87
SEJeff wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Openshift is open source, Docker EE is not. Big difference. https://github.com/openshift/origin

As InTheArena says, both Docker EE and Openshift have Open source cores and then supply commercial support and additions to suppplement them. It's a pretty common model amongst these companies, and hey they've got to make money somehow :)

Everything in openshift is open source at https://github.com/openshift/origin. The commercial version is long term support, security response and errata, and the stability around that. There's nothing that is withheld from the open source project. It is not open core.

Edit: I forgot, the logo is not open source. So the logo is withheld :)

Re: Adding Kubernetes support to the Docker platform

#117

Post by ntnn »

rsanders wrote: post #109
ntnn wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a shoehorned explanation. You're leaving developers on linux out to dry because people aren't paying attention to their production systems? Don't get me wrong, the work you guys do is cool and all, but that isn't a valid explanation from my point of view. Any company should have some sort of staging to test updated before rolling them out - it isn't up to the developers of the software to take care o…

There has been plenty of hue and cry in the past about the rapid rate of change of Docker, and new features bundled in when many users would have preferred a more deliberate and planned change in what is to them a critical piece of infrastructure. You're assuming quite a lot.

If they were to plan this over a longer period of time for all distributions CE is available for I wouldn't have said anything. However they are specifically leaving out the platform most people are using docker on. And not only that - they _are_ providing k8s support with EE on linux. That pretty much deliberately points towards 'buy docker ee if you want this specific feature'.

Tbh, I wouldn't even have said anything if they were making that an EE-only feature. Thing is - they want to make money with that move and they're not honest about it. And in the process they're throwing the larger demograph using docker on the bleeding edge side of things in the mud. The people who are trying the new features on their own servers in their own time.

> There has been plenty of hue and cry in the past about the rapid rate of change of Docker

Yes, well - that is what happens when a company decides to use bleeding-edge hipster software. With puppet one minor version may not work with the server whos a few minors behind, with ELK in pre-5 versions the cluster may have gone keel over if the migration of the version hadn't been planned meticularly, with consul you may get better performance (dc-local speaking) than with etcd on one release and way worse the next.

Crying to the devs not to produce good software so quickly shouldn't be the solution.

Re: Adding Kubernetes support to the Docker platform

#118

Post by SEJeff »

smarterclayton wrote: post #115
raesene6 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As InTheArena says, both Docker EE and Openshift have Open source cores and then supply commercial support and additions to suppplement them. It's a pretty common model amongst these companies, and hey they've got to make money somehow :)

Everything in openshift is open source at https://github.com/openshift/origin . The commercial version is long term support, security response and errata, and the stability around that. There's nothing that is withheld from the open source project. It is not open core. Edit: I forgot, the logo is not open source. So the logo is withheld :)

Its surprising how many people don't realize this!

Re: Adding Kubernetes support to the Docker platform

#119

Post by merb »

InTheArena wrote: post #62
caleblloyd wrote: post #58

This will give IT organizations the option of getting an Enterprise supported distribution of Kubernetes from Docker. Historically, most IT orgs requiring supported k8s have either gone cloud with something like Google Container Engine or gone with OpenShift and get support from RedHat. OpenShift is a fork if kubernetes though and lags a year or so behind. It also adds opinionated features such as Image Streams. Dock…

This. It's hard not to see Redhat (and to a lesser degree VMware) as the big looser of today's news. I absolutely want to see how this is implemented. Openshift's pricing is highway robbery. Disclosure: my company is (was?) a big Openshift consumer...

VMware actually supports K8s. (you can even pay for support)

Re: Adding Kubernetes support to the Docker platform

#120

Post by InTheArena »

erikb wrote: post #105
InTheArena wrote: post #53

Great news for everyone except for VMWare (this is a simple compelling operating system for data centers that spans both windows and mac) and Openshift (which was one of the few viable ways of actually purchasing Kubernetes support). A lot of egos on both sides had to be suppressed to make this happen. Docker Swarm was a key driver in making Kubernetes popular because everyone realized that they needed swarm, but the…

Surpressing egos usually means one has found a joker to beat the other in the fight for leadership. I don't think that battle is over yet, though. It's a very strong move Docker does here, but at the same time k8s is considering choosing another container engine as their main component. Currently at least in Enterprise k8s has a lot more traction than docker (I personally love docker more, but every day need to focus…

Yes, but guess what, Docker CNI is now going to be supported, so CNI is no longer a issue. Ingress will still be a issue, but Openshift is still doing their own random route thing there anyways.

Being low on the stack is a power move. It's like a NFL lineman, the lower player has considerably higher leverage then the higher player. Docker can go in, run Kubeadm legitimately, but use Docker based CNI and volume plugins and displace Openshift.

Plus, Openshift is _12k_ a application node on AWS: https://www.openshift.com/dedicated/index.html#pricing

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