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Designing Websites for iPhone X

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Re: Designing Websites for iPhone X

#111

Post by mikeash »

alwillis wrote: post #93
mikeash wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

e) Making product lineups huge and confusing. Once the X becomes available, they'll have eight different models of iPhone you can buy, and that's not even counting different colors or storage options.

Making product lineups huge and confusing. Once the X becomes available, they'll have eight different models of iPhone you can buy, and that's not even counting different colors or storage options. What iPhone you get is driven by the economics of what you can afford and your personal taste. It's not that complicated. There are 5 models: - iPhone SE - iPhone 6s/6s+ - iPhone 7/7+ - iPhone 8/8+ - iPhone X It seems that…

The + and non-+ versions are effectively different models, thus eight.

And it seems pretty complicated to me. I imagine a non-technical friend or relative asking me what they should get. In the past, the answer was pretty simple: decide whether you wanted big or small, and get the latest available in that size. Before the 6, I didn't even need that first step. Apple has kept the previous year's model around at a lower price for a long time, but with limited storage options it was obviously positioned as being only for people who couldn't afford to pay any more.

This year I can't even decide for myself whether to get a X, an 8, or just stick with my 6+. If someone asks me whether the X is worth the price premium over the 8, or the 8 over the 7, I won't know what to say.

"It seems that Apple can't win even when they do what most people have wanted for a while: more options at more price points."

I don't understand this statement. Are you surprised that different people have different opinions?

Re: Designing Websites for iPhone X

#112

Post by robocat »

tqkxzugoaupvwqr wrote: post #103
nnd wrote: post #67

This is mindboggling to me why Apple designers thought it would be a good idea to have that black inset in the new iPhone, any ideas what's the reason behind that product decision?

My guess: Since the bezel is thin on three sides, they didn’t want to give the phone a big forehead by planting a comparatively big black bar at the top. I think their solution is bad. The inset makes the front of the phone look busy/unclean/techie. It’s lacking elegance. They should have reduced the left and right bezel to nearly zero and added a small bezel at the bottom that matches the one at the top to create sy…

> [they should have] added a small bezel at the bottom that matches the one at the top to create symmetry

This is a terrible idea - you can’t quickly tell which way the phone goes up. Have you used a Moto G2?

you should also try to be less arrogant when talking about the work of others ;-)

Re: Designing Websites for iPhone X

#113

Post by randyrand »

yeezul wrote: post #38
barumrho wrote: post #17

Keep in mind that this is mostly a problem in landscape mode and roughly 90% of usage is in portrait mode.

AKA "You're holding it wrong"

Finally someone that understands! A phone should work in any orientation. I primarily use my phone with the display facing the ground, and its ridiculous that you can't see the display!

Re: Designing Websites for iPhone X

#114

Post by cs2818 »

athenot wrote: post #34

> Respecting the Safe Areas > The next step towards making our page usable again after adopting viewport-fit=cover is to selectively apply padding to elements that contain important content, in order to ensure that they are not obscured by the shape of the screen. This is taking me back to the era of TV on CRT screens. Since there was always a bit of overscan, it was never a guarantee that the content at the very edg…

Definitely so. Even though it's rarely an issue today, I cannot escape thinking of title-safe and action-safe [0] while editing.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe_area_(television)

Re: Designing Websites for iPhone X

#115

Post by alwillis »

mikeash wrote: post #111
alwillis wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making product lineups huge and confusing. Once the X becomes available, they'll have eight different models of iPhone you can buy, and that's not even counting different colors or storage options. What iPhone you get is driven by the economics of what you can afford and your personal taste. It's not that complicated. There are 5 models: - iPhone SE - iPhone 6s/6s+ - iPhone 7/7+ - iPhone 8/8+ - iPhone X It seems that…

The + and non-+ versions are effectively different models, thus eight. And it seems pretty complicated to me. I imagine a non-technical friend or relative asking me what they should get. In the past, the answer was pretty simple: decide whether you wanted big or small, and get the latest available in that size. Before the 6, I didn't even need that first step. Apple has kept the previous year's model around at a lowe…

The + and non-+ versions are effectively different models, thus eight.

Besides the size, the only difference are the camers between the Plus and non-Plus models.

Re: Designing Websites for iPhone X

#116

Post by alwillis »

mikeash wrote: post #111
alwillis wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Making product lineups huge and confusing. Once the X becomes available, they'll have eight different models of iPhone you can buy, and that's not even counting different colors or storage options. What iPhone you get is driven by the economics of what you can afford and your personal taste. It's not that complicated. There are 5 models: - iPhone SE - iPhone 6s/6s+ - iPhone 7/7+ - iPhone 8/8+ - iPhone X It seems that…

The + and non-+ versions are effectively different models, thus eight. And it seems pretty complicated to me. I imagine a non-technical friend or relative asking me what they should get. In the past, the answer was pretty simple: decide whether you wanted big or small, and get the latest available in that size. Before the 6, I didn't even need that first step. Apple has kept the previous year's model around at a lowe…

Apple has kept the previous year's model around at a lower price for a long time, but with limited storage options it was obviously positioned as being only for people who couldn't afford to pay any more.

Or who didn't need or want anything more. Most of my older relatives would be with a 16 or 32GB iPhone SE for example.

This year I can't even decide for myself whether to get a X, an 8, or just stick with my 6+. If someone asks me whether the X is worth the price premium over the 8, or the 8 over the 7, I won't know what to say.

Yeah, I get the price/performance thing, but at the end of the day, it comes down to do you want the latest and greatest? Is that something you're willing to pay for?

When Apple Pay shipped, I knew I wanted an iPhone that could do that, so I got a 6s, even though I could have gotten a lower-end model. I knew I didn't want something as big as the 6s Plus, so I didn't get that, even with its dual camera setup, because the photos I can take on the 6s are good enough for me.

It's not a matter of is the price premium of the X worth it vs. the 8 in some objective way; is it worth it to you is all that really matters.

If you can't figure out what to buy, that says to me you haven't gotten clear about what you need vs. what you want and what you're willing to pay for those needs and wants.

Touch-ID works great for me, so I don't need Face-ID. However, I'd love to have an OLED screen iPhone but I'm not willing to pay $999 for it at this time.

Timing is a factor too. If you need a new iPhone right now, that means waiting until December or longer to get an iPhone X isn't really an option, especially if there's a hard deadline. Apple won't achieve supply/demand balance until Q1 or Q2 of 2018.

In some cases, these decisions make themselves.

Re: Designing Websites for iPhone X

#117

Post by om2 »

ynniv wrote: post #46
YooLi wrote: post #8

Out of the box, Safari displays your existing websites beautifully on the edge-to-edge display of the new iPhone X. Content is automatically inset within the display’s safe area so it is not obscured by the rounded corners, or the device’s sensor housing. Default behavior is for you to do nothing to your code and Safari on the X will automatically pad around the inset and rounded corners. This is just if you _want_ t…

Device specific extra pixels were a bad idea. Further modifying web design standards to account for them is making the problem ten times as bad. Where's the CSS declaration that tells Safari to make those pixels black so no one has to care about this? Unplanned sections of background color around your header bar is not "displaying existing websites beautifully".

> Where's the CSS declaration that tells Safari to make those pixels black so no one has to care about this?

  body { background-color: black; }

Re: Designing Websites for iPhone X

#118

Post by om2 »

alwillis wrote: post #43
dylan-m wrote: post #19

I was ready to be annoyed by this, and it is a ridiculous design, but the article is a pretty good discussion of CSS's round display extensions. Those have been sort of sitting around gathering dust as far as I can tell, but the idea seems pretty cool and potentially useful. I like that they're proposing a safe area constant, which makes a lot of sense. This is a really great way to see it all actually working and fi…

With that said, they lose the plot a bit when the iPhone X's safe area adds unnecessary padding outside of the notch, and then double down on that mistake when they talk about their brand new `min()` and `max()` functions. These functions aren’t Apple’s and they're not new. There was a proposal a year ago to add them back to CSS, which means they were existed in some W3C or WHATWG specification proposal before that:…

min() and max() are actually super useful beyond handling the iPhone X safe areas, here's a Tweet with some examples of other ways to use it: https://twitter.com/iamvdo/status/910074435159420928

In brief, it lets you replace the "CSS locks" pattern which is a super awkward way to apply clamping to a flexible size. min()/max() makes it much easier.

Re: Designing Websites for iPhone X

#119

Post by mikeash »

alwillis wrote: post #116
mikeash wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The + and non-+ versions are effectively different models, thus eight. And it seems pretty complicated to me. I imagine a non-technical friend or relative asking me what they should get. In the past, the answer was pretty simple: decide whether you wanted big or small, and get the latest available in that size. Before the 6, I didn't even need that first step. Apple has kept the previous year's model around at a lowe…

Apple has kept the previous year's model around at a lower price for a long time, but with limited storage options it was obviously positioned as being only for people who couldn't afford to pay any more. Or who didn't need or want anything more. Most of my older relatives would be with a 16 or 32GB iPhone SE for example. This year I can't even decide for myself whether to get a X, an 8, or just stick with my 6+. If…

And in some cases, the bewildering array of options makes the decision difficult.

I don't even know if the X is actually better than the 8 for me, let alone whether it's worth the price premium. Things have really gone sideways with the X, because there's no longer an obvious best. The X is worse than the 8 in important ways, like no Touch ID and no home button. It's better in other ways. Which one wins? I don't know.

Back to the topic of things that wouldn't have happened under Steve, pre-Steve Apple had a vast and baffling Mac lineup. Steve eventually simplified it down to four basic offerings, one for each combination of (cheap, pro) and (desktop, portable). iPhones were even simpler. You lose out on choice, but you win on simplicity. Steve much preferred the simplicity of fewer choices. I don't mind having choices now, but it may very well end up costing Apple a sale this time: the more I waffle between the 8 and the X, the more likely I'll just decide to keep my 6+ for another year.

Re: Designing Websites for iPhone X

#120

Post by mikeash »

alwillis wrote: post #115
mikeash wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The + and non-+ versions are effectively different models, thus eight. And it seems pretty complicated to me. I imagine a non-technical friend or relative asking me what they should get. In the past, the answer was pretty simple: decide whether you wanted big or small, and get the latest available in that size. Before the 6, I didn't even need that first step. Apple has kept the previous year's model around at a lowe…

The + and non-+ versions are effectively different models, thus eight. Besides the size, the only difference are the camers between the Plus and non-Plus models.

In other words, besides the massive obvious difference between the two models, they also have another difference?

(And just to be complete, battery life is different too.)

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