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Cutting your salary by 40%

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Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#111

Post by dagw »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #91
dagw wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's because 40 hours was quite simply discovered to be a more productive length of day That was true when most of the workforce was doing manual and factory style labour. To the best of my knowledge it hasn't been rigorously reproduced for works that spend their days staring at a screen thinking.

And if it's not been rigorously tested, then there doesn't seem to be any strong case to assume that the ideal number for office work is higher, rather than lower, than 40. I'm also wondering how commute time (and method of commute) factors into this. Does 30 minutes of physically strenuous cycling before/after work have a positive or negative impact on office workers? Does the same time spent in a car navigating sto…

there doesn't seem to be any strong case to assume that the ideal number for office work is higher, rather than lower, than 40.

Absolutely. I'm at least as convinced that 35 hours is optimal time as I am that 45 is. I also agree with your point about commutes. Instead of looking at time in the office it probably makes more sense to look at the time from when one leaves home to when one leaves the office. And speaking only for myself, having to drive 30 minutes to work each morning would be a pretty major deal-breaker for any job I'd consider.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#112

Post by jnordwick »

What many here dont seem to understand is that you work commensurate with where you want to be. I work longish hours become I'm in finance and want to move up the organization or find a higher spot inn another. I want to know more about all facets of the firm and one day be a principal in a prop trading firm.

I don't put in 80+ hour weeks because I want to stay where I'm at in my career. I become involved in more and take on more reliability because I want more responsibility I the future. I work twice or more what I'm paid to work because I want to earn at least twice as much in the future.

Worrying about how many hours you are putting in against your current paycheck isn't very forward looking for your career.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#113

Post by richardknop »

Clubber wrote: post #103
richardknop wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be right that some people can be productive more than 40 hours per week because I am one of them. However my point was that when negotiating salary you can't really say "I can be productive 70 hours per week" and therefor ask for 40% higher salary. It doesn't work that way and what you negotiate is based on your skills mostly in comparison to other people who are assumed to put in cca 40 hours per week. So…

>You might be right that some people can be productive more than 40 hours per week because I am one of them. Is that constant heads down, in the zone coding, or does that include some coding, some management, some marketing, etc? Also, how long can you do that for? 5 years straight? I typically work in bursts. If I don't have an outlet in between bursts (surfing, 30 minute tv show, walk, etc), the longer it takes to…

It's the same for me, I work in bursts. Sometimes I will have 30m-1h of not very productive time (reading blog post on web, going for a walk etc) but then I will have a burst of productivity when I hunker down for couple of hours and do a lot of work.

Obviously it isn't constant 8 hours of heads down, in the zone coding, there are things in between and also meetings and planning often takes time. I used to work longer before but as you say, that is not sustainable for a long run, you can do it for couple of years before you burn out.

I also used to do quite a lot of extra work in the evenings and weekends when I had sudden inspiration / urge to refactor or improve some piece of code. But I don't do that anymore and instead use that free time for myself and my hobbies :)

If I feel an urge to write some code on Sunday, I will work on one of my open source projects or contribute to some other projects out there if they interest me or I will experiment with new tech to keep my skills up to date.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#115

Post by EGreg »

danielharrison wrote: post #85
etiene wrote: post #38

This is insane. I've actually been looking to reduce my work hours to about 30, because even 40 seems too much. Having had a couple of burnouts before, I want my life to be more than my job, and I truly believe this would make me better at my job in the long term. After a day of full time work I almost never have the energy to do some of the other things I want to do. I want to be able do more open source, learn a fo…

I dropped my standard hours down to 24 just recently and it's been rejuvenating. I do pick up the odd freelance/contract job whem it suits (pay/hours) and spend the rest of my time working around the house and generally relaxing. It's done wonders for mental health and stress levels. No more sitting in traffic all day, missing half my kids' life, stressing out about not getting stuff done around the house, eatimg cra…

Yes!

This is why I think FTE (Full Time Employment) should be disrupted. But it has to make sense on a societal level. Basic Income is one factor:

https://qbix.com/blog/

Here is another, which I highly recommend to entrepreneurs:

https://qbix.com/blog/index.php/2016/11/properly-valuing-con...

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#116

Post by logfromblammo »

richardknop wrote: post #60
Sholmesy wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this not illegal? I'm working in London right now, and have been looking at jobs in the US, but the workers rights seem incredibly hostile, and downright crazy to me...

This seems normal in US from what I have read (could be wrong as I have never worked in US) so I would stay in London if I were you :)

It's a gamble in the US. Most of the time, your direct supervisor and your group manager will both be actual, decent humans, and you will never encounter this madness.

But sometimes, one of them, or your division manager, junior VP, senior VP, CTO, or CEO will be an insane demon from the acidic bowels of the abyss, and they will make everyone underneath them miserable.

Generally, you either recognize it immediately and decline the offer, or you start looking for other work as soon as you figure it out, because they will eventually fire you or drive you to quit, and you will have no effective recourse against them.

We have no union aligned to our interests and no political party wanting to curry favor, so malicious employers can get away with whatever they want, and any penalty or backlash is usually dwarfed by the additional money made by the unethical behavior.

The consolation is that if you can get a decent job with sane management, the gross pay before cost of living expenses is a lot higher. You could potentially save up for retirement a lot faster, but you could also get two bad jobs in a row and burn out.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#117

Post by bryanlarsen »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #37
dx034 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if economic problems really come from long work days. Otherwise it'd be easy to boost the economy by forcing people to work less. I totally agree with the health problems it causes though.

>Otherwise it'd be easy to boost the economy by forcing people to work less. Well have we tried it?

Henry Ford did, to great success.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#118

Post by toomanybeersies »

walshemj wrote: post #81
doikor wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is weird to me. At least here in Finland when you are salaried for the standard 37.5h work week (7.5h work day with 30min lunch break) if you work more then that you log the hours as overtime and get paid for them or in some form of "flex" time that you turn into vacation days or money (there are limits to how many hours of flex you can have banked up) I know some smaller companies/start ups work around this but…

your not salaried one of the key features of salaried jobs I sno fixed hours of work and no OT.

At least here in NZ, the core difference between salary and wages is that when you have a salaried job, you talk about yearly income, and when you have a wage job, you talk about hourly.

The no fixed hours and no overtime thing seems to be an American thing.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#119

Post by logfromblammo »

coldtea wrote: post #65
Ascetik wrote: post #10

To add to this, I recently got let go from my job 2 weeks ago . With that said, my boss routinely tried to guilt trip me because I didn't want to work more than 40hrs a week. I have 2 very small children and my wife is pregnant, I can't spend all my time working, nor do I have any desire to. There were a few times I put in a couple of 60hr weeks, but that was only to appease him, not because I felt it was necessary.…

> "When CAN YOU work after hours?" "You're a 40hr work week kind of guy" "Time to put on your big-boy pants" Sue them like its going out of style.

Don't just sue for yourself. Sue to have all their employees reclassified as wage employees rather than salaried exempt, and try to get them to pay out overtime for all that after-hours work.

Re: Cutting your salary by 40%

#120

Post by slaunchwise »

jnordwick wrote: post #112

What many here dont seem to understand is that you work commensurate with where you want to be. I work longish hours become I'm in finance and want to move up the organization or find a higher spot inn another. I want to know more about all facets of the firm and one day be a principal in a prop trading firm. I don't put in 80+ hour weeks because I want to stay where I'm at in my career. I become involved in more and…

Pro tip for getting ahead: learn the difference between 'commiserate' and 'commensurate'. Otherwise you will be unintentionally funny.
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