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Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

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Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#111

Post by hoorayimhelping »

bhouston wrote: post #91
eric_b wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you'd already made up your mind about Rod, and weren't keen to hear the other side. I, on the other hand, was curious to read his version of things so I'm glad he took the time to offer a detailed reply. After reading his "polemic" I felt he was rational, composed, and defended his actions and character rather well. I came to the conclusion that the pitchfork wielding folks were slinging a lot of unsubsta…

> Sounds like you'd already made up your mind about Rod, and weren't keen to hear the other side. I actually only read his side, although I stopped after a couple screen fulls as I recognized from experience that what I was reading was not a productive response to the situation at hand, but a defensive one.

>I actually only read his side, although I stopped after a couple screen fulls as I recognized from experience...

So what you're saying is you made up your mind (based on past experience) and weren't really keen to read the full text because of that?

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#112

Post by sirius87 »

danso wrote: post #93

I didn't know who Mr. Vagg was or his role in Node before reading his post, and without looking at posts/tweets from the people who opposed him, or having a clear grasp of the controversy, I still appreciated that he put the time toward a lengthy rebuttal. Writing a lot of words, for any reason, is a decent time investment. And it takes significantly more time to make it reasonably accommodating and (at least from my…

I think it's unfair to infer his personal opinions from tweets and apply it to conscious decisions he's made in his position at Node.js. Context matters.

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#113

Post by jancsika »

danso wrote: post #93

I didn't know who Mr. Vagg was or his role in Node before reading his post, and without looking at posts/tweets from the people who opposed him, or having a clear grasp of the controversy, I still appreciated that he put the time toward a lengthy rebuttal. Writing a lot of words, for any reason, is a decent time investment. And it takes significantly more time to make it reasonably accommodating and (at least from my…

> I don't know what the resolution to Node.js's conflict is, but the last thing we need is yet another fucking blowup in which the entire debate gets reduced to the lazy polemic of "Objective programmers yelled at by SJW soft scientists"

But without a transparent process where the accusations are clearly stated, I see two practical consequences:

1. The lazy polemic you quoted.

2. Reserving judgment.

Is there another option I'm not seeing?

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#114

Post by bsder »

This story actually helped crystallize why I have been quite so knee jerk against things like Codes of Conduct.

The whole point of a Code of Conduct, Homeowner's Association, or anything else which attempts to codify politeness, common sense, respect, etc. is to be used as a bureaucratic bludgeon against someone. And, while those may get put in place to get used against a single egregiously bad person, they then stick around to get used by the far more numerous petty political jerks.

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#115

Post by GenericsMotors »

geofft wrote: post #63
GenericsMotors wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please follow up on what was the supposed evidence against him and you will see his response was reasonable.

Oh yeah - his response was definitely reasonable if the facts are that the supposed evidence against him was trumped up and he's in the right. I'm just trying to figure out if his response is also what I'd expect to see if the facts are that the supposed evidence against him is completely accurate and that he's a toxic contributor who's trying to hurt the project.

So he is condemned in your eyes, not matter what evidence is presented?

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#117

Post by mcphage »

danso wrote: post #93

I didn't know who Mr. Vagg was or his role in Node before reading his post, and without looking at posts/tweets from the people who opposed him, or having a clear grasp of the controversy, I still appreciated that he put the time toward a lengthy rebuttal. Writing a lot of words, for any reason, is a decent time investment. And it takes significantly more time to make it reasonably accommodating and (at least from my…

> But when he says:

>> "I have never made a case against the Node.js Code of Conduct."

> But on Twitter, he implies that people aren't skeptical enough of CoC's and that he has "witnessed the negatives, again and again".

If you use anything enough times, you'll witness the negatives again and again, even if you feel the positives outweigh the negatives and overall recommend it. Viewing something as a net positive, let alone not making a case against it, does not require you to be blind to it's negatives.

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#118

Post by dmpk2k »

bhouston wrote: post #91
eric_b wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like you'd already made up your mind about Rod, and weren't keen to hear the other side. I, on the other hand, was curious to read his version of things so I'm glad he took the time to offer a detailed reply. After reading his "polemic" I felt he was rational, composed, and defended his actions and character rather well. I came to the conclusion that the pitchfork wielding folks were slinging a lot of unsubsta…

> Sounds like you'd already made up your mind about Rod, and weren't keen to hear the other side. I actually only read his side, although I stopped after a couple screen fulls as I recognized from experience that what I was reading was not a productive response to the situation at hand, but a defensive one.

Of course it's a defensive one. He's the person being accused! ಠ_ಠ

God forbid someone defend themselves after being publicly and on-record dragged through the mud. This isn't going away for him even if he stepped down and disappeared from the scene entirely.

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#119

Post by lightedman »

dang wrote: post #108
thehardsphere wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be offensive but it sure is accurate.

It looks like you've been using HN primarily for political/ideological battle. That's destructive of what the site is for, so we ban accounts that do this, so would you please stop doing this? Intellectual curiosity can't flourish on a battlefield. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

"It looks like you've been using HN primarily for political/ideological battle. That's destructive of what the site is for,"

Then why is this entire thread and subject here? It's entirely political and ideological.

Re: Rod Vagg's statement on the request to be removed from the Node.js CTC

#120

Post by mcphage »

geofft wrote: post #14

A bit of a thought experiment for myself: suppose that Rod were as terrible as the worst possible claims made against him. (I am confident he's not.) Suppose he were actively, consciously hoping to deceive and harm the Node community. (I am also confident he's not.) What sort of statement would he write? How much would it look like this one?

"You say you're not a witch? Why, that's exactly what a witch would say!"
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