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Announcing .NET Core 2.0

blogs.msdn.microsoft.com

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Re: Announcing .NET Core 2.0

#111

Post by pjmlp »

WhitneyLand wrote: post #85

Perfect example of a strong technology that has really been hurt by strategic errors. Whatever success .NET did have, it was still largely pigeonholed as just something for Microsoft stack devotees. There was no technical reason the essence of the new core version couldn't have been a priority 20 years ago. Not only cross platform and open source, but acting earlier and more aggressively to dispel patent trap mistrus…

20 years ago there was Rotor (aka Shared Source CLI), but it was another management in place.

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc749640.aspx

Re: Announcing .NET Core 2.0

#112

Post by pjmlp »

jackfoxy wrote: post #97
TensorMetric wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's going to be fixed this year, then why isn't it even on the official road map? https://github.com/Microsoft/visualfsharp/issues/2400

You're absolutely correct about .NET native not being .NET compliant...sigh...there are just higher priorities for such a big company. As quoted in the comments " [F# native support] depends on the Core CLR team improving support for a couple of big items. dotnet native is and AOT compilation are absolutely a goal for us ... they just are longer term than this roadmap anticipates." It's actually eye-opening how few t…

Politics more likely.

Re: Announcing .NET Core 2.0

#113

Post by flukus »

GordonS wrote: post #78
dep_b wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Electron means you need 2GB of memory for a simple chat app like Slack to talk about the application you're building in a fully featured all bells and whistles included application like Visual Studio that only takes 700MB of your memory. Compare what Visual Studio + ReSharper does versus what Slack does. I have no idea what 70% of the features in Visual Studio do yet I'm using it professionally for years and years, t…

> Electron means you need 2GB of memory for a simple chat app... No, it doesn't. Visual Studio Code is an extensible IDE that is stuffed with features - yet it doesn't use that much memory, and it's fast . And yet there are seemingly simple Electron apps that use a lot of memory and are slow - it seems, just like with any other framework, it's possible to write both good and crappy code.

> No, it doesn't. Visual Studio Code is an extensible IDE that is stuffed with features - yet it doesn't use that much memory, and it's fast.

When I first used Visual Sutdio it was VC++ 6 and I upgraded my machine to have 256MB of RAM so I could run it. What features does VS Code have that VC++ 6 didn't?

Re: Announcing .NET Core 2.0

#114

Post by sandGorgon »

revelation wrote: post #81
sandGorgon wrote: post #19

Why are there so few new languages built on the .NET platform ? This is a genuine question - is there something about the JVM that gives rise to such vibrant ecosystems. Clojure, Scala, Kotlin, Groovy, JRuby : Most importantly, every one of them is in production use - not just as toy/experimental languages. And we havent even opened the Pandora's box that is Java 9+Truffle. There's a lot of broscience that .NET is su…

Wait, you believe outside of Hacker News (you know, "broscience") people use (or even know) any one of "Clojure, Scala, Kotlin, Groovy, JRuby"? I think I have news for you. No company without a foosball table in the break room would remotely think of such a thing. The users of VB.NET alone dwarf any of those languages. There is a reason Microsoft keeps updating that.

You do know that Google is backing Kotlin right ? And that Apache Spark that runs Facebook's ETL is in Scala. Or that Clojure is used at https://clojure.org/community/companies ?

Re: Announcing .NET Core 2.0

#115

Post by GordonS »

pjmlp wrote: post #109
GordonS wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget F#!

Its future is uncertain with lack of UWP support, the way things are going expect Microsoft to offer it to the community. I hope being proven wrong though.

With the exception of UWP support (which I'm sure will come), F#'s future seems pretty certain to me. There seems to have been a lot of interest in it lately, probably fueled by the current hype over functional programming.

Re: Announcing .NET Core 2.0

#116

Post by GordonS »

flukus wrote: post #113
GordonS wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Electron means you need 2GB of memory for a simple chat app... No, it doesn't. Visual Studio Code is an extensible IDE that is stuffed with features - yet it doesn't use that much memory, and it's fast . And yet there are seemingly simple Electron apps that use a lot of memory and are slow - it seems, just like with any other framework, it's possible to write both good and crappy code.

> No, it doesn't. Visual Studio Code is an extensible IDE that is stuffed with features - yet it doesn't use that much memory, and it's fast. When I first used Visual Sutdio it was VC++ 6 and I upgraded my machine to have 256MB of RAM so I could run it. What features does VS Code have that VC++ 6 didn't?

I didn't use VC++ 6 myself, but I'll take a guess at a few things:

  - IntelliSense

  - Tasks for external tools

  - Themeable

  - Extensible through plugins, for which there is a large ecosystem

  - Support for many languages, with syntax highlighting and linting (through plugins)

  - Support for different debuggers (e.g. debugging a Cordova app)

  - Support for different version control systems (TFS, Git, SVN...)

  - Minimap

  - Highlighting of all instances of selected text in the scrollbar (don't know if this feature has a name, but it's really useful)

  - Ability to edit multiple lines at the same time

  - Bracket matching

  - Code folding

  - Live, inline reference information

  - Not sure if 'go to definition' or 'go to implementation' was a thing in the days of VC++ 6?

  - Workspace zoom

  - Support for screen readers

  - Integrated terminal

Re: Announcing .NET Core 2.0

#117

Post by vorg »

jdc0589 wrote: post #84
merb wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that might be true for kotlin, but probably not for Clojure, Scala, Groovy and JRuby

I'd argue it still could be true. The CLR has variants of a lot of those too, but they are much less popular. All those alternative languages for the JVM probably still would have been born at some point even if Java adapted faster, but they are as popular as they are due to Java's slow adaptation. This isn't a very good argument, but name recognition is on totally different level with alternative JVM languages too.…

Beanshell came before Apache Groovy and had many dynamic features useful in scripting for the JVM. Groovy essential copied many of those Beanshell features, then added closures, which was Groovy's real contribution to the JVM ecosystem. Soon after there was some disagreement among its leaders over the syntax when closures are used as Kotlin-style builders.

Re: Announcing .NET Core 2.0

#119

Post by pjmlp »

GordonS wrote: post #115
pjmlp wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its future is uncertain with lack of UWP support, the way things are going expect Microsoft to offer it to the community. I hope being proven wrong though.

With the exception of UWP support (which I'm sure will come), F#'s future seems pretty certain to me. There seems to have been a lot of interest in it lately, probably fueled by the current hype over functional programming.

Check the newly released Visual Studio 15.3.

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/dotnet/2017/08/14/f-and-net...

Apparently lack of support wasn't enough to delay Visual Studio 15.3's release, just let the community deal with it.

Re: Announcing .NET Core 2.0

#120

Post by flukus »

GordonS wrote: post #116
flukus wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, it doesn't. Visual Studio Code is an extensible IDE that is stuffed with features - yet it doesn't use that much memory, and it's fast. When I first used Visual Sutdio it was VC++ 6 and I upgraded my machine to have 256MB of RAM so I could run it. What features does VS Code have that VC++ 6 didn't?

I didn't use VC++ 6 myself, but I'll take a guess at a few things: - IntelliSense - Tasks for external tools - Themeable - Extensible through plugins, for which there is a large ecosystem - Support for many languages, with syntax highlighting and linting (through plugins) - Support for different debuggers (e.g. debugging a Cordova app) - Support for different version control systems (TFS, Git, SVN...) - Minimap - Hig…

It had most of those things, especially the important ones:

  - IntelliSense - Yes

  - Tasks for external tools - I think so

  - Themeable - Yes, back then you could theme the whole windows desktop and native apps would comply.

  - Extensible through plugins, for which there is a large ecosystem - Kind of, all the "plugins" came from MS.

  - Support for many languages, with syntax highlighting and linting (through plugins) - Yes, not sure how many.

  - Support for different debuggers (e.g. debugging a Cordova app) - Don't think so.

  - Support for different version control systems (TFS, Git, SVN...) - Not sure, it predates everything on that list.

  - Minimap - Don't think so.

  - Highlighting of all instances of selected text in the scrollbar (don't know if this feature has a name, but it's really useful) - Not sure

  - Ability to edit multiple lines at the same time - No

  - Bracket matching - Yes

  - Code folding - Yes (I think)

  - Live, inline reference information - Yes

  - Not sure if 'go to definition' or 'go to implementation' was a thing in the days of VC++ 6? - It was (not sure about goto implementation though)

  - Workspace zoom - Don't know what that is.

  - Support for screen readers - Probably via windows API's, but I'm not sure.

  - Integrated terminal - not sure.
Sure doesn't look like a lot of process in the intervening 20 years.
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