Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue • Hacker News Board

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#111

Post by pera » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:08 PM UTC

bradly wrote: post #80

pera wrote: post #62

From the class-action lawsuit website "FAQ": > Coinbase allowed users to withdraw BTC prior to the hard fork > The process of transferring Bitcoin can be complex and potentially very risky even for experienced users. Additionally, creation of a new account or wallet on a different exchange is often a lengthy and difficult process. While Coinbase did suggest to users that they could move their BTC to a different walle…

I had to move my coins out of Coinbase last week and it was very scary. I had never moved coins before and I even though the process seems simple, I had very little confidence in what I was doing. Honestly, I almost just left the coins in Coinbase figuring losing 10% of value from BCH is still probably positive equity compared to my perceived risk of losing it all which felt between 25% and 50%.

What was the very scary part? you just need to copy and paste a Bitcoin address, it literally can not be simpler :) is it maybe the the alphanumeric hash that looks scary?

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#112

Post by undersuit » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:09 PM UTC

vocatus_gate wrote: post #98

Alex3917 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They already came to a decision. They told people who wanted BCC to withdraw their coins before August 1st. Everyone who wanted BCC already has them.

I think an argument against that is that 10 days is a pretty short deadline to act to prevent a potentially large financial loss. Especially if you were on vacation, not following the news about bitcoin, etc. Coinbase doesn't have to support trading BCC, they can simply provide a withdrawal function so people can claim their BCC and move on with their lives. Their decision to ignore it entirely is going to get them s…

Does the stock market offer do-overs if there is a significant move against you while you're on vacation?

Would Coinbase normally be held accountable for a significant move in Bitcoin against you while you're on vacation?

Coinbase isn't a company to secure your Bitcoins against the value of the dollar, it's a company that stores Bitcoins and facilitates transactions.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#113

Post by fauigerzigerk » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:09 PM UTC

mikeash wrote: post #105

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something I don't quite get (being a cryptocurrency newbie). Why can coinbase users not simply import their private key into some other wallet that supports both Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash? My understanding is that Bitcoin Cash recognises the old Bitcoin blockchain as their own up to the point of the fork. So as of Aug 1st all Bitcoin balances are Bitcoin Cash balances as well. Or is that not how it works?

Coinbase users don't have a private key for their Coinbase balance. They have an account with Coinbase, and Coinbase has their own private keys for their internal wallets. When you withdraw money from Coinbase, you're asking them to use their private keys to sign a transaction sending bitcoins to an address you specify. What users could have done was withdraw their Coinbase balance into their own wallet, then they'd…

Oh, I see. That's unfortunate. Thanks for explaining.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#114

Post by mikeash » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:09 PM UTC

For all the people saying this is totally fine and they warned people and they shouldn't have to support every single fork that comes along, I'd like to pose a hypothetical.

All forks are basically equivalent. If I fork Bitcoin today, my fork is just as legitimate as Segwit or Bitcoin Cash. The only differentiation is community buy-in and hashing power and similar fuzzy metrics.

Rather than sticking with Segwit and ignoring BCC, what if Coinbase had ignored Segwit and stuck with BCC? People would have lost 75% of their holdings, as measured in USD. Would you consider that to be OK?

Or worse, imagine if Coinbase created their own fork and starting from some certain date they only supported that fork, and it ended up being worthless because nobody cared about it. Coinbase would have basically wiped out all of their users. Would that be OK?

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#115

Post by vocatus_gate » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:11 PM UTC

jmilloy wrote: post #86

I don't really follow these cryptocurrencies very closely. I assume that Coinbase is sitting on keys/wallets that own Bitcoin belonging to their customers, which would mean that they are now also sitting on keys/wallets that own Bitcoin Cash. So could Coinbase short (some of) that Bitcoin Cash by selling it on other exchanges? I read this statement from Coinbase: "If this decision were to change in the future and Coi…

You're more or less correct. Coinbase is sitting on the keys to customer wallets/funds. When the fork happened, those keys work both on the original Bitcoin network and the new "Bitcoin Cash" network. Which, apparently turned out to have substantial value (currently trading ~$650).

Coinbase made a colossal mistake in outright ignoring BCC and will likely get sued (and lose) because of it. If I had 10 BTC on CB and missed out on the opportunity to trade or sell $6,500 worth of free BCC I just got, I'd be mad too.

They need to act quickly before it goes to court. Someone else commented that they don't even need to support trading BCC, all they have to do is provide a way for customers to withdraw their BCC, and they're in the clear.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#116

Post by jmilloy » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:12 PM UTC

fosap wrote: post #91

barkingcat wrote: post #73

Haha why is there "fiduciary" duty when Coinbase is not a bank, not a security agency, and not any type of share that people bought into (ie customers are not shareholder). Coinbase can do anything they want! Also, I suggest it's people's own fault for storing their bitcoins at a place that does not give access to their own private keys. This fork has been a long time coming. Everyone and their mother was warned to k…

>Coinbase can do anything they want! That's no how laws work. Not even remotely. Thankfully. Consider you order somebody (X) to transport your pregnant cow. At the destination the cow arrives. It's not pregnant anymore and X refuses to give you the calf because... well, because he can do anything he wants. That's theft.

It's more like, while transporting the pregnant cows, one bird jumped on each cow in the trailer along the way, and now you're demanding X gives you not just the cows, but the birds, too, even though they're hard to catch.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#117

Post by undersuit » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:13 PM UTC

brianberns wrote: post #106

jbb67 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you could if there was any practical way to sell the bitcoin cash version at the moment. I personally think it likely that once you can, you'll be lucky to get $7 for one.

If there's no practical way to sell bitcoin cash, where does the $700 valuation come from?

Demand to trade them, but it could all come crashing down like an overpriced IPO.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#118

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:13 PM UTC

jmilloy wrote: post #86

I don't really follow these cryptocurrencies very closely. I assume that Coinbase is sitting on keys/wallets that own Bitcoin belonging to their customers, which would mean that they are now also sitting on keys/wallets that own Bitcoin Cash. So could Coinbase short (some of) that Bitcoin Cash by selling it on other exchanges? I read this statement from Coinbase: "If this decision were to change in the future and Coi…

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#119

Post by shpongled » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:14 PM UTC

gauravhp wrote: post #102

Can someone please advice me whether its good to invest now or wait for sometime for it to settle?

None of us can see the future. I first got into bitcoin in early 2011. I have no rational evidence to support this, but my intuition tells me that bitcoin cash will not be the winner. Too much hassle to adopt, few exchanges currently supporting it.

Re: Bitcoin Cash Soars to $700, Coinbase Customers Threaten to Sue

#120

Post by lawn » Wed, Aug 02, 2017, 4:15 PM UTC

pera wrote: post #111

bradly wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to move my coins out of Coinbase last week and it was very scary. I had never moved coins before and I even though the process seems simple, I had very little confidence in what I was doing. Honestly, I almost just left the coins in Coinbase figuring losing 10% of value from BCH is still probably positive equity compared to my perceived risk of losing it all which felt between 25% and 50%.

What was the very scary part? you just need to copy and paste a Bitcoin address, it literally can not be simpler :) is it maybe the the alphanumeric hash that looks scary?

Handling a potentially large of money and keeping it secure? How to store the key? What happens if I loose my phone/computer? How can I protect myself from fire and theft? Which wallet to choose? How can I be certain I don't have a virus waiting to steal my coins? Did i copy my address correctly?

That's a lot of uncertainty for "it literally can not be simpler".