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Tesla's Long-Awaited, Lower-Priced Model 3 to Arrive Friday

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Re: Tesla's Long-Awaited, Lower-Priced Model 3 to Arrive Friday

#111

Post by davedx »

yalogin wrote: post #104

Even if they hit their production targets, everything hinges on how well and how soon they can get their autnomous feature to work. If Google gets theirs to work and into a production car before Tesla does it will be tough for Tesla. Until then the stock will have good momentum.

I don't agree with this analysis. The Model 3 is a superior mass market electric car to almost all competitors (only the Chevy Bolt is comparable on cost and range).

Autonomous driving will be a game changer, but it's also vitally important for Tesla to capture the electric vehicle mass market.

Re: Tesla's Long-Awaited, Lower-Priced Model 3 to Arrive Friday

#112

Post by skgoa »

Robotbeat wrote: post #8

20,000 cars per month by December is an incredibly ambitious goal. If achieved, they have a very good chance of getting their 500,000 cars in 2018, something that virtually everyone (including myself) thought could not be done. So two things: 1) If you don't have a dog in this race, wait and see if Tesla really does achieve these goals. Outrageous claims require strong evidence. 2) If you're a competitor, now is not…

> And if you're a luxury car maker, you don't need me to tell you that as the Model S is already eating your (high profit margin) lunch: "Tesla’s Model S outsells Mercedes S-Class, Porsche Panamera, and BMW 6/7 Series combined in the US" https://electrek.co/2017/05/26/tesls-model-s-leading-us-larg....

Ah, electrek, the personal blog of an early Tesla investor. Great source. (not) This kind of statistic primarily serves as an example of how you can massage numbers to get the narrative you want.

Re: Tesla's Long-Awaited, Lower-Priced Model 3 to Arrive Friday

#113

Post by capex »

jonknee wrote: post #23

It's arriving Friday and they still haven't released official photos of the interior nor have any options configurations. Really odd way to launch a vehicle. https://www.tesla.com/model3

There are some unofficial photos of the interior [1]. Its severely lacking, with a large screen just tacked on to the dashboard with no interface whatsoever. Musk says model 3 will be a smaller, less advanced version of the flagship S [2].

https://c1cleantechnicacom-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/files/201...

http://bgr.com/2017/03/24/tesla-model-3-release-video-musk-o...

Re: Tesla's Long-Awaited, Lower-Priced Model 3 to Arrive Friday

#114

Post by BoorishBears »

davedx wrote: post #111
yalogin wrote: post #104

Even if they hit their production targets, everything hinges on how well and how soon they can get their autnomous feature to work. If Google gets theirs to work and into a production car before Tesla does it will be tough for Tesla. Until then the stock will have good momentum.

I don't agree with this analysis. The Model 3 is a superior mass market electric car to almost all competitors (only the Chevy Bolt is comparable on cost and range). Autonomous driving will be a game changer, but it's also vitally important for Tesla to capture the electric vehicle mass market.

The Volt is a more practical competitor to the Model 3, which is part of why I dropped my model 3 reservation for a 2017.

Other reasons include a lackluster test drive of a Model S and my increasing skepticism of Tesla's practices as a company (aggressively selling cars before adding new features at a completely random cadence but claiming model years are unnecessary, promises like AP2 parity, QC failures at 20k cars over several months while also planning to make 20k cars a month, etc.)

But I digress, 40-50 mile range on EV only mode means most people can complete their commutes on EV only with a Volt. I charge at work and at home, so I can get 50 miles to work, 50 miles by lunch, and another 50 miles to go home.

A Volt specced out like mine has a Mobileye sensor for lane keeping assist, ACC, an interior not as needlessly spartan as the 3, 0-30 times slightly faster than last year's Model S 85, and a hatchback.

After driving the Volt I'm really saddened that GM won't push the Volt more. Not a single Model 3 reservation I know wouldn't be better served by a Volt, but most of them had no idea about stuff like the improved 50 mile range. Some even write it off as a hybrid (which it technically is, but they think 1-2 mile range, not 50)

Re: Tesla's Long-Awaited, Lower-Priced Model 3 to Arrive Friday

#115

Post by BoorishBears »

chaostheory wrote: post #56
narrowtux wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do live in Germany, and it is a concern for me. The VW e-up costs 22k EUR and has a top speed of 130 km/h, the BMW i3 full electric version w/o range extender costs about 35k EUR and has a top speed of 150 km/h. This performance would be fine if I bought a car under 10k EUR but not for this price.

Just adding more data: The 2017 Volt (Opel Ampera-e) has a top speed of about 160 km/h / 100 mph for 35k EUR, $33k USD Pretty sure the Model 3 can acheive this, if not be faster, since this is just the norm and not 'fast'.

My 2017 is speed limited to 101 mph. It gets to that speed pretty uneventfully, but I've heard the low rolling resistance tires are only rated for 100 mph so GM limited it to 100. I'm curious if a dealer could remove the limit if you changed the tires, but I don't think anyone has bothered

Re: Tesla's Long-Awaited, Lower-Priced Model 3 to Arrive Friday

#116

Post by FireBeyond »

Retric wrote: post #80
rgbrenner wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the price range just reinforces that they're not in the same class: Telsa S: $57-140k Mercedes S-Class: $97-226k That's a 70% increase at the bottom and 60% at the top.

https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2017/cost-to-own/ https://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-benz/s-class/2017/cost-to-o... 2017 Tesla Model S Average Price Paid $86,200 2017 Mercedes-Benz S-Class Average Price Paid $98,958 Which is just under 15%.

That's misleading.

For the S class: "Based on S 550e Plug-In Hybrid with options".

As soon as you select any other model:

* S550 - $108,506

* S63 - $196,496

* S65 - $241,129

* others - $180K, $230K.

So the S-Class is "for the base model" but using it as a litmus for the S class range is no different to only looking at the Model S 60, at $68K.

Re: Tesla's Long-Awaited, Lower-Priced Model 3 to Arrive Friday

#117

Post by FireBeyond »

LMYahooTFY wrote: post #81
FireBeyond wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you look at the other pieces, like features and performance Yeah, have you compared say "cabin quality" to a Bentley or Rolls? That's another piece that falls way short. Even to a C/E Mercedes. Door handles being ... problematic, etc, are things that push the S from being "on par" with those cars you name.

Honestly if you think door handles are what push a Mercedes off of "par", then I don't have a response as this seems like a debate about what's subjective and/or important.... I've actually worked at luxury car dealers, I don't find Bentley or Rolls cabin quality to be better than a Mercedes, and I've driven all of them around at least once. Automotive engineering doesn't precisely follow the price curve. Bentlty and…

> I don't find Bentley or Rolls cabin quality to be better than a Mercedes

I've only been in a Bentley once, and I think you misunderstand. The quality of -either- a Bentley, Rolls, Mercedes, Audi or whatever, all of those, far exceeds the Model S, which is more akin in cabin quality to my old Altima.

Re: Tesla's Long-Awaited, Lower-Priced Model 3 to Arrive Friday

#118

Post by takeda »

Retric wrote: post #80
rgbrenner wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looking at the price range just reinforces that they're not in the same class: Telsa S: $57-140k Mercedes S-Class: $97-226k That's a 70% increase at the bottom and 60% at the top.

https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2017/cost-to-own/ https://www.edmunds.com/mercedes-benz/s-class/2017/cost-to-o... 2017 Tesla Model S Average Price Paid $86,200 2017 Mercedes-Benz S-Class Average Price Paid $98,958 Which is just under 15%.

I would say price ranges are more reliable.

Also since there's no dealers, Edmunds simply just copied MSRP, which also is incorrect TBH because it is not the price for basic model without upgrades.

Re: Tesla's Long-Awaited, Lower-Priced Model 3 to Arrive Friday

#119

Post by LMYahooTFY »

FireBeyond wrote: post #117
LMYahooTFY wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly if you think door handles are what push a Mercedes off of "par", then I don't have a response as this seems like a debate about what's subjective and/or important.... I've actually worked at luxury car dealers, I don't find Bentley or Rolls cabin quality to be better than a Mercedes, and I've driven all of them around at least once. Automotive engineering doesn't precisely follow the price curve. Bentlty and…

> I don't find Bentley or Rolls cabin quality to be better than a Mercedes I've only been in a Bentley once, and I think you misunderstand. The quality of -either- a Bentley, Rolls, Mercedes, Audi or whatever, all of those, far exceeds the Model S, which is more akin in cabin quality to my old Altima.

I did, I thought you meant the S class, although my rides in a couple of different trim levels of the Model S didn't leave me with that impression.

I would agree with you as far as aesthetic preference goes, but if you view this as an objective metric similar to cabin space, audio/onboard computer performance, etc. then I would disagree.

Re: Tesla's Long-Awaited, Lower-Priced Model 3 to Arrive Friday

#120

Post by zionic »

BoorishBears wrote: post #114
davedx wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't agree with this analysis. The Model 3 is a superior mass market electric car to almost all competitors (only the Chevy Bolt is comparable on cost and range). Autonomous driving will be a game changer, but it's also vitally important for Tesla to capture the electric vehicle mass market.

The Volt is a more practical competitor to the Model 3, which is part of why I dropped my model 3 reservation for a 2017. Other reasons include a lackluster test drive of a Model S and my increasing skepticism of Tesla's practices as a company (aggressively selling cars before adding new features at a completely random cadence but claiming model years are unnecessary, promises like AP2 parity, QC failures at 20k cars…

The volt is a great car, just wish they made a cool looking one.
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