Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

europa.eu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 702 posts

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#111

Post by simion314 »

Kenji wrote: post #19

Unjust enrichment of disgusting bureaucrats. In this case, google did nothing wrong other than display what they want on their own site, and for that they have to pay their hard earned money to an undemocratic authoritarian commission. No thanks.

So Google should have the right if they want show the results they prefer and hide or push on 10th page results that may affect their profits? As an example say I have a very popular source code hosting or email service, so popular that is on top search results on all other search engine but in Google search is hidden intentionally, that seems fair to you and not an abuse of a search service to promote unrelated products? Would it be still be fair if Google would have deals like pay me X and you will be on front page, pay me Y and your competitor is not on front page, it is Google service so they can show anything they want.

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#113

Post by vegancap »

s_kilk wrote: post #62
vegancap wrote: post #36

The EU are verging on gangsterism, extorting businesses for increasingly specious violations and terms. Of course Google favour their affiliates on THEIR web services, their property.

I find the manic defense of corporate interests over the interests of the public more sickening.

I just don't understand how surfacing affiliated ads over others on Google own sites is a big deal? They're a revenue generating service, of course they're going to favour ad networks and channels which benefit them the most financially. To fine a private business €2.4bn for conducting pretty standard business practices.

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#114

Post by calcifer »

Pyxl101 wrote: post #104
matthewmacleod wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they could consider not engaging in uncompetitive practices. The thing is, if they want to do business in the EU they have to abide by the rules of the EU. It's not that complex!

You're acting like the outcome of this decision was in any way predictable based on the "rules of the EU". If I owned a website that had a search engine and comparison shopping and email, I would not expect that it's somehow wrong if my search engine shows results from my service's comparison shopping and email. I would not expect that it's somehow my obligation to seek out comparison shopping services operated by my…

> You're acting like the outcome of this decision was in any way predictable based on the "rules of the EU"

Yes it was [0].

> If I owned a website that had a search engine and comparison shopping and email, I would not expect that it's somehow wrong if my search engine shows results from my service's comparison shopping and email

If your search engine had a dominant position in the EU market and if you used that dominance to put your shopping product above other competitors', then yes, it would not only be wrong, but also illegal.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_competition_law

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#115

Post by sweden »

HerraBRE wrote: post #77
romanovcode wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it's the truth, isn't it?

I actually feel it's misleading and wrong at a very fundamental level; this was the only thing I disagreed with in the whole press release! Consumers "pay" for Google's services by giving ads attention so the ads have value and Google can sell them. All the data harvesting is a means to a end: to make the ads more appealing so you'll click. Google don't profit from the data directly; in fact all the data harvesting a…

But in order to make the advertising business very profitable (this is, in order to give a reason for other businesses to use Google Ads to advertise themselves), Google needs to know all about you: who you are, where you are, what you like, what you don't like, what you like at certain times, what are your needs, etc, etc.

The real value of advertising is in showing the right advertisement at the right time at the right person.

Personal data is to advertisement what sugar is to candy.

Your analogy with the café is very misguided and not related at all with the situation.

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#116

Post by helb »

nkkollaw wrote: post #61
gressquel wrote: post #32

I wish they would add an additional 1 billion fine for AMP.

From what I read, AMP is a subset of HTML to make pages load faster and deliver ads more efficiently (which might appeal to content creators). I assume that Google is attempting to make devs start using a proprietary technology instead of the well-established HTML standard, or: - somehow lock everyone in with the format - force people to switch to Chrome since it would run those pages better - force other browsers to…

This might be worth reading: https://www.alexkras.com/i-decided-to-disable-amp-on-my-site... (on HN yesterday: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14635013)

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#117

Post by vegancap »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #102
vegancap wrote: post #36

The EU are verging on gangsterism, extorting businesses for increasingly specious violations and terms. Of course Google favour their affiliates on THEIR web services, their property.

I have absolutely no framework for understanding this attitude. I've got to assume you're aware of things like unfair competition, antitrust laws, market distortions and so on. The idea is that a disproportionately influential market participant can cause the market to become less free by virtue of inhibiting competition – competition being a vital part of a free market. Rules against abusing a dominant market positi…

Unless I've misunderstood what the fine was for. Fining a private business €2.4bn for promoting its own affiliates over other networks, how is that in any way an abnormal business practice? I'm not trying to be controversial, I just don't understand how that warrants such a hefty fine.

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#119

Post by pulse7 »

patrickaljord wrote: post #103

I wonder if that's payback for the US gov fining VW so hard: https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2017/04/21/volkswa... It's almost the same amount, US$2.8B. It's like the EU telling the US "F with our corporations and we'll F with yours".

I wonder how much GM will pay for emissions cheating in US: http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/25/news/companies/gm-emissions-...

Re: European Commission fines Google €2.42B for abusing dominance

#120

Post by zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC »

lucozade wrote: post #71
gpribeiro wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Capitalism implies economic agents that follow fair rules. What this ruling shows is that EU haven't forgot what capitalism is all about.

Hmm. The rules are a tad arbitrary. This would be entirely allowed if less people used Google search relative to its competitors. Note, it's not illegal per se. It's not illegal because of a de jure monopoly. It's not even illegal because of the number of users they have. It's illegal because Bing, Yahoo et al are not as relatively successful. It was the same with browsers. Microsoft were hit for bundling. Apple have…

The primary criteria is the damage it causes to society, there is absolutely nothing arbitrary about it. It just so happens that if you are not a (quasi-)monopoly, you just cannot cause the kind of damage a monopoly can, no matter how hard you try, and if you don't cause any damage, you won't be fined.
Post reply on HN