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Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

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Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#111

Post by ubernostrum »

ckastner wrote: post #57

What puzzles me is that the ESTA application was approved in the first place. If they were going to deny him entry, why approve it? Could there be a more benign explanation for this issue? For example: his ESTA approval expired (it's valid for two years), or the data entered on the ESTA form did not exactly match his passport data (special characters, middle names, etc.)

The online ESTA form does not "approve" someone to enter the US. The online ESTA form is required to determine if you're in a population that's generally eligible for visa-free entry (so that the airline and other systems know whether to require a visa for you).

Filling out the ESTA form does not grant a visa, does not grant the right to enter the US, and does not even guarantee you'll be allowed onto the plane. It simply says "Yes, you appear to be a citizen of a country which, in general, has visa-free entry to the US".

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#112

Post by germanier »

ubernostrum wrote: post #98
Taniwha wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

but when you apply for an ESTA you get told you've been 'approved' - you use this as a basis for booking a flight and travelling, if they're going to take it back without telling you (they have your email address) that really sucks, kind of passive aggressive

ESTA does not tell you you're "approved" -- it simply tells you whether or not you are in one of the eligible populations for visa-free entry to the US. Nothing in ESTA guarantees you'll be allowed into the US, or even to board your plane.

It literally tells you

> Your travel authorization has been approved and you are authorized to travel to the United States under the Visa Waiver Program.

It then goes on to say (but this is the same for visas as well):

> This does not guarantee admission to the United States; a Customs and Border protection (CBP) officer at a port of entry will have the final determination.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#113

Post by b6 »

nickserv wrote: post #79
humanrebar wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This may be unpopular on an US-centric site like HN, but the US looks more and more like they want to isolate themselves from the rest of the world: very strict immigration policy, travelers molested by TSA on airports, ... Almost all Americans think this sort of thing is nonsense. But the average American has little standing to hold the American bureaucracy accountable for its nonsense. Americans, especially outsi…

> Almost all Americans think this sort of thing is nonsense. But the average American has little standing to hold the American bureaucracy accountable for its nonsense. Sorry but they don't get off that easy when almost half of them voted Trump into office. > Americans, especially outside overcrowded urban areas, are courteous, helpful, hospitable people that are very tolerant of other people and ideas. I've found qu…

> Sorry but they don't get off that easy when almost half of them voted Trump into office.

Not to rehash the past, but I thought we had gotten it clear by now: voting for the guy does not indicate support. Americans vote for the candidate they fear and despise the least.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#114

Post by zimpenfish »

timr wrote: post #51
y0ghur7_xxx wrote: post #40

This may be unpopular on an US-centric site like HN, but the US looks more and more like they want to isolate themselves from the rest of the world: very strict immigration policy, travelers molested by TSA on airports, ... These conferences where people around the world meet should start to be hosted somewhere else. Not in the USA anymore. Somewhere in a country that welcomes people instead of treating all of them l…

A small percentage of Americans wants to do this. Most Americans are indifferent (as in most countries), but the reactionary party has won the day, and a total lunatic is in the White House. Sadly. But this too shall pass. Not that I disagree with your conclusion: I hope conference organizers (and other groups) do start focusing abroad. The only thing that the GOP reliably responds to is the interests of money. Start…

> But this too shall pass.

Probably not for several generations if the GOP get to stuff SCOTUS (which is looking increasingly likely with Kennedy's rumoured retirement and the age of the existing Dems on there.)

[Edit to correctly reference Kennedy instead of Roberts]

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#115

Post by theboywho »

theboywho wrote: post #100

People suggesting to move conferences to other countries like France or Germany are wrong: you can't guarantee that your country is not going to turn into a US-like isolationist in the future. The US wasn't and your country is also only 1-government away from being one. What we probably need is a new form of portable conferences where the location doesn't matter and/or is flexible and/or regime-proof. We should stop…

Another idea (which I'm sure is not going to be popular but is probably a pretty good one): choose countries where the head of the state is stable: eg. Open Kingdoms, like Morocco, where the royal family is there for more than centuries and has a history showing a welcoming attitude towards international gatherings / foreigners, or where most people can get in without needing a visa.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#116

Post by K2L8M11N2 »

theboywho wrote: post #100

People suggesting to move conferences to other countries like France or Germany are wrong: you can't guarantee that your country is not going to turn into a US-like isolationist in the future. The US wasn't and your country is also only 1-government away from being one. What we probably need is a new form of portable conferences where the location doesn't matter and/or is flexible and/or regime-proof. We should stop…

>you can't guarantee that your country is not going to turn into a US-like isolationist in the future

If it does, you can move the conference again. Just because it can change sometime "in the future" doesn't mean we shouldn't do it now.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#117

Post by thepoet »

On a related note, the visa issuing system of the US sucks. I was denied a tourist visa and then issued one on reapplication in a matter of 5 days. The process is highly irregular since absolutely nothing changed between the two 30 seconds interviews except the interviewer. The only inconvenience was I had to reschedule my YC interview and throw away an additional $300 in visa form and travel cost.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#118

Post by ubernostrum »

Just to throw out an anecdote: a while back I nearly was denied boarding of an international flight, because it turned out the airline had mixed up my passport data and decided I was not a US citizen and would need a visa to return to the United States.

I discovered this at the airport, when trying to drop off my bag. Fortunately, the airline agent was able to get a supervisor who took a look at my (US citizen) passport and fixed something in their records that allowed me to get a boarding pass and catch the flight, but I could easily have just been stranded there by someone who took the attitude of "computer says no, can't help you when the computer says no".

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#119

Post by jagermo »

GreaterFool wrote: post #63

Recently EU parliament voted to introduce visas for US citizens due to unequal treatment of EU countries. "About f ing time", I though. Few months pass and I read that EU Commission will do nothing*. I hate those bureaucrats in the EU. EU should retaliate (not of malice, just to force equal treatment). It's not a visa waiver if you can be denied entry so easily, as many people are. And of course not all EU countries…

I understand your sentiment and the reaction.

But I think it would be wrong to have an eye-for-eye-approach. US Citizens should see, how easy it can be to travel to a country, without jumping through hoops like ESTA. They should feel wrong why they force it onto others but enjoy the freedom to travel easily.

Otherwise nothing will change. It's easy to start a "oh, they do it to us, let's annoy them even more" spiral and that would really, really suck.

Re: Author of cURL denied entry to the USA

#120

Post by qume »

skynode wrote: post #106
qume wrote: post #68

Just to balance the narrative here a bit, I have traveled into and out of the US many times per year for around 15 years with no problems on an ESTA. I only recently switched to a visa. After a long flight having to deal with the delay and hassle of immigration seems much worse than it is. I really hate it, and the comments here suggest others do too, but if you look at what we have to deal with objectively it's not…

> Regarding Daniel - like others here I'm sure it's because cURL has been used extensively for bad purposes he was kicked off the ESTA program. Yes it sucks that they didn't let him know in advance, and they didn't have the smarts to figure that he had nothing to do with the bad actors. Very strange paragraph right there. I could easily generalize this to Windows powershell is increasingly being used in cyber offensi…

Yes you can generalize this to Windows powershell.

And no that does not have anything to do with ejecting Microsoft from the US. Microsoft isn't a private foreign individual using a privileged entry mechanism in the US that given any reason whatsoever can be revoked in favour of a perfectly functional visa process that most countries have to use.

ESTA is only available to a few countries, and not all people in those countries.

I don't think Microsoft will be ejected from the US because of an ESTA invalidation.

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