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Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

#111

Post by haihaibye »

ouid wrote: post #85
zhemao wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genetic mutations. As you get older, you accumulate more genetic damage, which can be passed on to children. It's fairly well-studied that children of older parents are more susceptible to genetic disorders.

I have two problems with your argument. To start, I'm going to assume that, by defective, you mean unintentional, correct me if I'm wrong. This is equivalent to the assertion that there is no feasible mechanism to preventing your germ cells from accumulating damage due to age, because otherwise, if it was maladapative, AND evolution could design a mechanism for preventing it, it would have. It's been long enough sinc…

>> What's the difference between the germ cells in my body and the germ cells in my offspring's body. Why do those last longer?

Interesting question, I'm not sure but there is a selection mechanism with sperm creation, movement and implantation.

Ie your bad germline cells with too much damage don't make it to the next generation.

Re: Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

#112

Post by drzaiusapelord »

FeteCommuniste wrote: post #78
drzaiusapelord wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And mothers too. http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/06/10/41320592... Worse, double the risk of schizophrenia for children who have dads at 40. Triple at 50. http://www.schizophrenia.com/prevention/older.htm Other mood and psychological disorders are linked to father's age as well. Turns out sperm and eggs are delicate and after 40 years of aging, simply can't do their jobs well. Evolution's mechanisms are…

Just to clarify, the sperm cells of a forty year old man (unlike the egg cells of a forty year old woman) are not themselves forty years old.

Right but the body that creates them has damaged 40-year old DNA and the DNA that ends up in the sperm comes from that damaged source.

Re: Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

#113

Post by ouid »

haihaibye wrote: post #111
ouid wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have two problems with your argument. To start, I'm going to assume that, by defective, you mean unintentional, correct me if I'm wrong. This is equivalent to the assertion that there is no feasible mechanism to preventing your germ cells from accumulating damage due to age, because otherwise, if it was maladapative, AND evolution could design a mechanism for preventing it, it would have. It's been long enough sinc…

>> What's the difference between the germ cells in my body and the germ cells in my offspring's body. Why do those last longer? Interesting question, I'm not sure but there is a selection mechanism with sperm creation, movement and implantation. Ie your bad germline cells with too much damage don't make it to the next generation.

That's not a hard solution to replicate inside of a single organism. The fact that we haven't suggests that it isn't adaptive.

Re: Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

#114

Post by awkwarddaturtle »

ouid wrote: post #53
awkwarddaturtle wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That could be true, but older fathers also have more defective genes, are less able to play with their children, etc. The children are just genetically "weaker", have more physical issues and participate in far less physical activity because their father is so old. This is anecdotal evidence but one of my friends had a very old dad. He had issues which forced him to wear bifocals and hence he didn't participate in sp…

What do you mean by "defective genes"?

As you grow older, there are more mutations and more risks for defects.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/children-with-old...

Re: Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

#115

Post by awkwarddaturtle »

s_kilk wrote: post #76
awkwarddaturtle wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That could be true, but older fathers also have more defective genes, are less able to play with their children, etc. The children are just genetically "weaker", have more physical issues and participate in far less physical activity because their father is so old. This is anecdotal evidence but one of my friends had a very old dad. He had issues which forced him to wear bifocals and hence he didn't participate in sp…

This is some Phrenology-grade bullshit

Not phrenology. It's science/genetics.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/children-with-old...

Re: Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

#116

Post by haihaibye »

ouid wrote: post #113
haihaibye wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> What's the difference between the germ cells in my body and the germ cells in my offspring's body. Why do those last longer? Interesting question, I'm not sure but there is a selection mechanism with sperm creation, movement and implantation. Ie your bad germline cells with too much damage don't make it to the next generation.

That's not a hard solution to replicate inside of a single organism. The fact that we haven't suggests that it isn't adaptive.

Naturally aborting a foetus due to genetic errors found in growth stagrs after combining with foreign DNA in your balls then shutting down the process and re-extract the germline cells is easy?

Why bother going to all that trouble when you can move the DNA to a new body and let the old one fall apart?

For it to have been worth it, a longer reproductive career has to pay off more than the opportunity cost of spending effort on other strategies eg aquiring more mates or investing more in your kids.

The most optimal balance is of course the DNA running around today.

Re: Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

#117

Post by ouid »

haihaibye wrote: post #116
ouid wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not a hard solution to replicate inside of a single organism. The fact that we haven't suggests that it isn't adaptive.

Naturally aborting a foetus due to genetic errors found in growth stagrs after combining with foreign DNA in your balls then shutting down the process and re-extract the germline cells is easy? Why bother going to all that trouble when you can move the DNA to a new body and let the old one fall apart? For it to have been worth it, a longer reproductive career has to pay off more than the opportunity cost of spending…

I don't need to engineer the solution precisely, but the idea that it's impossible, or even difficult, to maintain the information degradation rate of mitosis, is clearly flawed. If your argument is that 'life has simply not found a way to do this yet', you should probably reconsider your argument.

Re: Older fathers have 'geekier sons'

#118

Post by haihaibye »

ouid wrote: post #117
haihaibye wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naturally aborting a foetus due to genetic errors found in growth stagrs after combining with foreign DNA in your balls then shutting down the process and re-extract the germline cells is easy? Why bother going to all that trouble when you can move the DNA to a new body and let the old one fall apart? For it to have been worth it, a longer reproductive career has to pay off more than the opportunity cost of spending…

I don't need to engineer the solution precisely, but the idea that it's impossible, or even difficult, to maintain the information degradation rate of mitosis, is clearly flawed. If your argument is that 'life has simply not found a way to do this yet', you should probably reconsider your argument.

My argument is that there are tradeoffs. There may be a way to do it but it has been thoroughly out competed by the make children and die strategy that dominates the planet.
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