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Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

washingtonpost.com

111–120 of 370 posts

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#111
People worried about free speech rights should realize that Harvard is a private university.

If I held a party at my house and didn't want to invite you because you called my dog a 'mutt', you'd get laughed out of court if you tried to sue me over it.

People should be allowed to organize under whatever principles they want to organize under. Disallowing Harvard to use whatever criteria they want to use to admit students, unless of course they breach civil rights laws, is ultimately decreasing the amount of intellectual diversity in the world.

People that don't like Harvard can apply to any other college. There's no shortage of them to choose from. But if you tell Harvard what they can and can't do, you run the risk of destroying the individuality of Harvard.

Also, there's some mumbling about the fact that it was private speech that was supposedly surveilled on. Obviously it wasn't that private if school administrators caught wind of it. If you really want a private group, keep it truly private and don't tell anyone about it.

The lesson kids should be taking away from this is, don't let your friends drag you into dangerous situations. Harvard is a nationally recognized school, any screw-ups earn national attention. It's very much a "if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen" sort of situation.

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#112

We'll have to create a public and a second, private, personality just like in the old days of the police state. Society is more open than it probably was ever before but at the same time, if close minded leaders of fascist political or religious color came into power they'd have their tools handed to them to create an oppressive apparatus never seen before.

Or one just have to accept that actions have consequences. This has always been true and, like everything else, computers haven't changed anything they've just made it more efficient.

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...that privacy probably doesn't exist and free speech shouldn't be used.

No, that there are times, places, and contexts on how to use free speech. If you knowingly and publically associate your name with something offensive, there could be private consequences. Facebook is a public forum that happens to be visible to harvard staff. Students should know this.

> If you knowingly and publically associate your name with something offensive

But the article says it was a private group chat, not public.

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#114
post #100

I'm so conflicted right now. On the one hand, yeah, that shit is offensive and I'm not too keen on elevating a person who makes jokes about sexual assault or violence against minorities. On the other hand I'm terrified at the creeping surveillance society that has institutions examining all of our utterances for "wrong speech", which is much too close for comfort to "wrong think", which is much too close for comfort…

Could you be denied admittance to Harvard because you showed up on campus at some kind of freshman event and started telling extremely offensive jokes in front of the whole gathering? How is a Facebook group full of people you don't know any different?

You probably couldn't if you did so as a student, especially if doing so for a student publication. Reminds me of how the University of Illinois rescinded a tenure offer to Steven Salaita after he was accused of being anti-Semitic in tweets about Gaza. He would have been safe if he had tweeted after officially accepting the job: https://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/13/world/middleeast/professo...

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#115
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unfortunately for these 10 ex-applicants of Harvard they might not get into any University period for 2017/2018... This isn't a small implication to them for stupid posts online. I'm not 100% sure if I feel that's fair. them not getting into Harvard is one thing but losing education at this point in time is even worse.

Some of things they said went beyond just 'stupid posts'.

Presumably they were all jests in bad taste though?

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#116
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unfortunately for these 10 ex-applicants of Harvard they might not get into any University period for 2017/2018... This isn't a small implication to them for stupid posts online. I'm not 100% sure if I feel that's fair. them not getting into Harvard is one thing but losing education at this point in time is even worse.

Some of things they said went beyond just 'stupid posts'.

[deleted]

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#118
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People protecting the right of racists to spread racism, support racism. It cannot be any other way. You cannot claim that you dislike racism, and and also want to preserve it. Also, "Free speech" refers to the fact that the government cannot bust in to your house with a SWAT team and arrest you for speaking something that they don't like. Private companies can enforce whatever speech rules they like, and that doesn'…

There is lots of speech I dislike and don't support, but I don't oppress speakers or advocate for their oppression because I don't want people oppressing me when the tide turns. Supporting free speech is not the same as supporting the content of the speech. Also worth pointing out that Harvard receives a lot of public dollars, so it's not the canonical private institution. Remember when everyone freaked out that the…

Private organizations going "nah, we don't want you here, get out" isn't oppression. Your right to free speech doesn't supersede my right to free association.

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#119

I'm so conflicted right now. On the one hand, yeah, that shit is offensive and I'm not too keen on elevating a person who makes jokes about sexual assault or violence against minorities. On the other hand I'm terrified at the creeping surveillance society that has institutions examining all of our utterances for "wrong speech", which is much too close for comfort to "wrong think", which is much too close for comfort…

Dystopian fiction has given so much terrorizing weight to the concept of "thoughtcrime" and "wrong think" that I think people forget how much positive effect a culture can have on widespread mindsets and stopping ignorance. There are some ignorant thoughts that have almost entirely fallen out of the collective consciousness (in terms of serious belief, not abstract discussion of the past). (As a random example, there…

I agree. The ability to speak one's mind is good, important thing to have in our society. But it's not primary to being a good person. An institution should be able to set its own standard of decency.

Re: Harvard withdraws 10 acceptances for ‘offensive’ memes in private group chat

#120
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were allowed to speak. They did speak. "Freedom of speech" applies only and strictly to governments, not to a private institution. And that's because the only way "freedom of speech" matters is if others are free to react to you as they please; Harvard might not like you and might tell you to get the hell out of their (and my, as it happens) neighborhood. If you don't like that, then you have options. One, don't…

Cutting down to the point. * What these students did or didn't do does not matter in this case. * Harvard can withdraw the acceptance for anyone at any time for any reason. We don't need to argue about privacy or free speech here. All we can argue about as a first point is if Harvard should have the ability to withdraw their acceptance or not.

And of course they should, because free association exists (pursuant to the bounds of contracts, which don't appear to be violated here--h/t kudu), so why are you whatabouting?
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