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Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

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Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#111

Post by Swizec »

skosch wrote: post #97
watwut wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found it oftentimes easier to say no without saying reason. The issue for me was that when I state reason, people wanted to negotiate, attempted to "advise" me on how organize my time better and so on and so forth. Overtime (at least against many people) I found it much less draining to simply insist on politely stated no without further explanation.

Counterpoint: when people do this to me, I instinctively assume that the true reason is laziness. On top of that, I feel alienated – what, you think you're so important that you can brush me off just like that, and I'm not even worthy being given a reason? Be careful with this one. It's very much possible to state a reason and still express that you won't change your mind on the matter. Although it is more effort, yo…

It's a confidence thing. You don't need a reason to say No.

If somebody thinks you lazy, so be it. But you don't owe anyone a reason.

Reasons, as you see them, are often "excuses" to the other person. Mught be even worse. Now you're not just lazy, you also make excuses.

Personally I'm bad at this too. I often give reasons/excuses when there's no need and even more often I say No by not saying anything at all and waiting for the thing to pass.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#112

Post by lacampbell »

linksnapzz wrote: post #67
77pt77 wrote: post #45

>Read the life of a great scientist like Agassiz. Was he forever at the world’s beck and call? Not for a single day. Agassiz refers to "Louis Agassiz" a creationist scientific racist that believed the races had been created by God in separate events. Not the best example to use. Edit: He believed this in the late 1800 and the author of the submitted article apparently considered him a "great scientist" as late as 192…

Agassiz, who is still remembered for his contributions to geology & fossil taxonomy, can't possibly be a great scientist as he committed wrongthink over a century ago. Eventually, the only great scientists will be ones who are still available to have their opinions policed by modern progressives.

Eventually, the only great scientists will be ones who are still available to have their opinions policed by modern progressives.

I think that's becoming less and less true. I'd say we've already reached the nadir of progressivism in the west.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#113

Post by hammock »

manmal wrote: post #107
lomnakkus wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe I'm off my rocker, but isn't this exactly what "white lies"[1] were invented for? You don't actually always have to be 100% truthful with everyone. (That will also serve you badly in other social situations, BTW.) [1] Point being that even if people eventually find out that you did tell them a "white lie", they'll actually usually be very understanding because that's the societal norm and they realize that you…

Very true! It's hard to argue with another person's feelings or needs though. I can always need a bit of resting (who doesn't?), so it's not even a lie if I say "Sorry I feel a bit worn out, so I can't take this right now. I have this and that task to do later and I will have to give my everything to do it properly. I hope you find a solution for your problem." The white lie would be "Sorry my foot hurts, I had an ac…

Both of those sound terrible and regardless of your feelings I might tag you as unreliable. Is there a third way?

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#114

Post by dwaltrip »

zekevermillion wrote: post #72

This rings a bit hollow to me, kind of reminds of "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" -- a moral play, a fictional story passed off as autobiographical. Aimed to enforce our self-doubting instinct that we are somehow being a chump and letting society take advantage of us. Taking this literally is a path to regrets.

We can view it as containing slivers of truth, and then look at how to best extract those slivers and strengthen our mental models with them.

Of course, this is a lifelong and error-prone process :)

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#115

Post by hownottowrite »

Ref: Original article with lovely typesetting - https://books.google.com/books?id=kstZAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA3-PA13#v...

The whole issue is full of gems, like this one just a few pages away: "You do not have to like a job to succeed in it!"

https://books.google.com/books?id=kstZAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA3-PA16#v...

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#116

Post by watwut »

manmal wrote: post #100
watwut wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found it oftentimes easier to say no without saying reason. The issue for me was that when I state reason, people wanted to negotiate, attempted to "advise" me on how organize my time better and so on and so forth. Overtime (at least against many people) I found it much less draining to simply insist on politely stated no without further explanation.

If saying "no" without giving a reason does not alienate people, then you are probably very good at this game :) Do you probably add a compassionate "Sorry I cannot help you here" or something?

Yeah, I usually try to communicate that I understand that it is important for them and take them seriously. If possible, I would also attempt to find another solution or something like that. Also, if you are someone I have good experience with I would give you a reason.

Yet also, I help if I can and if it does not cost me all that much. It is not like I would be saying only no to everyone around.

This strategy is largely the answer to specific people I deal with and their strategies. It does alienates them a bit sometimes, but it is not possible to keep everyone happy all that time and I am very unhappy with that negotiation I am trying to avoid.

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#117

Post by pdonis »

skosch wrote: post #97
watwut wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found it oftentimes easier to say no without saying reason. The issue for me was that when I state reason, people wanted to negotiate, attempted to "advise" me on how organize my time better and so on and so forth. Overtime (at least against many people) I found it much less draining to simply insist on politely stated no without further explanation.

Counterpoint: when people do this to me, I instinctively assume that the true reason is laziness. On top of that, I feel alienated – what, you think you're so important that you can brush me off just like that, and I'm not even worthy being given a reason? Be careful with this one. It's very much possible to state a reason and still express that you won't change your mind on the matter. Although it is more effort, yo…

> what, you think you're so important that you can brush me off just like that, and I'm not even worthy being given a reason?

If you're a family member, friend, coworker, etc.--i.e., someone who has a reasonable expectation of my putting aside whatever I'm doing to consider your request--then this response would be reasonable. (But even then you have to respect the other person's time.)

But that isn't what the author of the article was describing. He was describing people who had no valid reason to expect him to be at their beck and call, still treating him as if he were at their beck and call. Such people are not entitled to a reason, because they're not entitled to any claim on your time in the first place. A polite "no" is enough.

(I should probably also clarify that by "friend" I don't mean "someone I just met on Facebook" or "someone I have a few beers with once in a while". I mean someone you have known for a fair amount of time and with whom you have mutual trust.)

Re: Why I Quit Being So Accommodating (1922)

#120

Post by pdonis »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #27
iamacynic wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the trick is to finely calibrate your bullshit meter through life experiences. what people tend to respect innately is a genuinely nice person who can instantly turn into a no-holds-barred asshole if bad intentions are detected.

IMO, the trick is to have control over the level of accommodation you present to different people and different situations. The key quote from the article: >I gave to them for years, at the expense of those who had a far better claim upon my generosity. There's a life skill getting pointed at here. Specifically, comparing the demand to the level of obligation you want to fulfill, and reacting appropriately. There's a…

> the trick is to have control over the level of accommodation you present to different people and different situations

Exactly.

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