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Mary Anderson, a Founder of the Outdoor Cooperative REI, Dies at 107

nytimes.com

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Re: Mary Anderson, a Founder of the Outdoor Cooperative REI, Dies at 107

#111

Post by lastofus »

Paul-ish wrote: post #103
lastofus wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would imagine it comes down to having the initial capital to start such a venture. Those with the capital retain ownership and reap the future returns. If there was a way coops could raise significant funds to start say a big box chain store, we might see more of them. I don't think small business loans quite cut it here.

If this is true, I wonder if this is inherent in the way markets work, or a result of the way we (government, society, whatever) have structured things.

I think it's inherent in the way markets work, or more specifically, how people operate in a mostly free market.

On the one hand, the market remains this way where people with money are more easily able to make large sums of money through investment, by making their money do the work. The system in this sense is self-perpetuating, but strictly speaking, doesn't have to be this way.

On the other hand, as a thought experiment, imagine a magic wand was waved and all capital and resources were evenly distributed across the national or even global population. The world would still be left with an inequality of people's ability to earn each others money. Those with good health, savvy business sense, in-demand skills, and knowledge of production would quickly start down the path of quickly earning, while others are left only spending. I don't think it would take very long to end up right back where we are today.

Re: Mary Anderson, a Founder of the Outdoor Cooperative REI, Dies at 107

#112

Post by dikdik »

cies wrote: post #108
dikdik wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...but I thought most entrepreneurs wanted to "change the world" with "revolutionary" businesses?

Haha. That's the "get everyone to look in the same direction, aren't we a lovely family, infesting a take more ownership than you take shares" story that private business tells. In the end the ones making equity investments in the business walk away with the surplus (both in profit and in valuation). :) I think coops are more suitable for that "change the world" while being "revolutionary" story. In fact many anarchi…

It definitely surprises me that with all the talk of "following your passion" and "changing the world", we see pretty much 0 innovation in HOW a company works/is owned/etc. Instead all innovation is focused at the product level.

I don't think there's anything wrong with caring about money, in fact I think it's a mistake not to care about money in a system that revolves around money. However, listening to people tell me how "passionate they are about 'X'" when in reality they are only passionate about making money is one my biggest pet peeves.

Re: Mary Anderson, a Founder of the Outdoor Cooperative REI, Dies at 107

#113

Post by jonknee »

subpixel wrote: post #109
jonknee wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well your "dividend" is simply a portion of what you bought. Sort of like a rewards credit card, they're not actual dividends.

Sort of like a rewards credit card, but without having to apply for, or carry around, or remember to use an additional credit card.

Or REI could just charge lower prices... But hey, if you like giving them a free loan for most of the year so you can get excited to receive it back then by all means.

Re: Mary Anderson, a Founder of the Outdoor Cooperative REI, Dies at 107

#114

Post by snowwrestler »

avar wrote: post #105
up_and_up wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So your go-to solution should be to buy used. Unless you are talking about mountaineering gear like anything climbing related: ropes, cams etc. How in the heck can you trust that used gear will work 100%? I would rather spend more $$ to reduce risk.

I'd buy that used too. You know there are climbing gyms where you're using both dynamic ropes & carabiners used by thousands of people before you? Those places aren't death traps. Ditto mountaineering tours etc. for newbies that usually have every incentive not to report if they damage some of the equipment. Carabiners, ropes & the like are tested when they're manufactured. Any damage likely to damage their structura…

I agree with you on metal hardware--if it looks and works fine, it probably is.

It's hard to evaluate a climbing rope by visually inspecting it, though. The strength depends primarily on the core strands, which are hidden away behind the sheath. Chemical damage is not as visible as people assume it is.

It's especially hard for lead ropes, because every significant fall takes some the elasticity out of the core. A rope can look perfectly fine even if it is no longer capable of absorbing a lead fall. The danger here isn't so much that the rope will break, but that the lack of stretch will overload your pro, your body, or potentially even the anchor.

So I would be very hesitant to buy a lead rope used, unless you really know and trust the person. Top-roping should be fine because the fall factor is so low. You can top rope with static cord if you're attentive to the belay.

Re: Mary Anderson, a Founder of the Outdoor Cooperative REI, Dies at 107

#115

Post by snowwrestler »

regulation_d wrote: post #110
subpixel wrote: post #48

As a member, I get an annual dividend from REI. I can assure you that sending customers money is a great way to engender loyalty.

I guess it depends on how you look at it. I think technically the "dividend" is a refund on an overpayment. Which is kind of like them saying, "Hey, why don't you give us money as membership fee and and we'll give you a 10% discount. Then you're going to overpay on all your goods by 10%. And we're going to hold on to that money, interest-free for you for like a year or whatever, but eventually we'll give it back."

The dividend is like a profit-sharing plan.

Re: Mary Anderson, a Founder of the Outdoor Cooperative REI, Dies at 107

#117

Post by anon263626 »

REI usually has fantastic gear good enough to not have to seek out specialty stores. Just one example: I got a better, rugged water bottle (7 gal) for less that the cost of the crappy (3 gal) one offered by the local water store. If you needed an ultracompact sleeping-bag and tent for protesting in North Dakota winters, REI probably carries it. Or climbing gear. Or a titanium spork.

Re: Mary Anderson, a Founder of the Outdoor Cooperative REI, Dies at 107

#119

Post by scriptkiddy »

SnacksOnAPlane wrote: post #74
rconti wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can absolutely find better deals elsewhere, but I find once I get my ~10% back at the end of the year, it all averages out. And anyway, I like supporting such a consumer (member?)-friendly company, and their return policy is top notch. I don't think twice about returning crap gear, and they don't think twice about accepting it -- and it feels like it benefits all of the members, because it feels like they care ab…

Yeah, that's what's great about the company. How many companies can you say "they cost a little bit more, but I like them so much that I'm willing to pay it" about? I can count like 3. It's a testament to how awesome they are.

The only other company I can think of where I don't mind spending more for the quality is Bates boots. They consistently outperform all of the other brands that I've tried. They are super durable, and they have a boot for almost any use. They're also one of the few boot companies that have a soft-toe and steel/composite toe offering for almost every model.
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