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Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

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Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#111

Post by pbhjpbhj »

CptJamesCook wrote: post #33
nradov wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's sad that you abuse your neighbors by treating your home as an unlicensed hotel and allow random people in for short-term rentals without proper vetting or supervision. If I was your neighbor I would certainly complain to the HOA, complex management, or city code enforcement to have you fined or evicted. Hopefully you at least paid for the cleanup and repair, with some additional compensation for their trouble.

My neighbors don't have a problem with me running the airbnb. They do it themselves, too, or at least like having the option to. The balcony was a mess but it wasn't damaged, nor did it cost anything to clean.

>nor did it cost anything to clean //

Free time!? You're not getting that time back you know, perhaps it cost little; I gather from this you're not an experienced landlord.

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#112

Post by 542458 »

hysan wrote: post #77
kazinator wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not unusual for settlements to have conditions attached, which makes this NDA thing somewhat less outlandish than it seems at first. For instance, if you settle with an insurance company after a car accident, you may have to sign something which says "that is it", waiving your right to sue anyone for anything more. If the person is properly compensated 100%, but keeps talking, it can be argued that their materia…

> you may have to sign something which says "that is it", waiving your right to sue anyone for anything more Isn't that quite different from an NDA though? With insurance, everything is documented and available for access in case you need to reference it at some later point in time. With an NDA, the settlement is effectively hidden from view and is much harder for you to legally discuss if you need to reference it at…

NDAs (aka confidentiality clauses) attached to settlements are extremely common - have you ever seen the phrase "settled for an undisclosed sum"? It's usually because of some sort of confidentiality clause. Here's some background on those, and why they're used:

http://www.americanbar.org/publications/gp_solo/2012/novembe...

Re: your house example, the NDA linked in the article don't go that far. IANAL, but it's actually pretty reasonable as far as I can tell. It basically says "I absolve AirBNB of any further responsibility, and I agree not to talk about this payout". That's it.

The AirBNB rep being asleep at the wheel is a real story and pretty lousy - however the NDA feels like a non-story to me.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B0k9tVdZvR1NUEtFTDZQUTQxZlk...

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#113

Post by st3v3r »

nodesocket wrote: post #75

"They barricaded themselves inside with 14 police officers being unable to get them out until morning.” What? In America (god bless thee) police would have broken down doors and pepper sprayed those monsters, hopefully a few billy clubs to the head as well and arrested them all.

Only if they weren't white (See: Oregon Federal Wildlife Refuge office occupation).

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#114

Post by supercanuck »

PeterisP wrote: post #82
supercanuck wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

bribe would be accurate since they were offering payment outside their remediation process they setup. Instead of simply offering payment in exchange for the damage per their guarantee, they wanted something in return: Silence.

Bribe would be accurate if they were offering payment outside someone else's remediation process. Apparently payments+NDA are part of the remediation process that they actually set up in practice. There's also no reason to assume why a private remediation process should be universal and the same for everyone, it's not a court - it would be unfair to close down options that they advertised, but it's completely reasona…

If everything is case-by-case and determined by "eligibility," what is the purpose of the word Guarantee here, and funds released are subject to conditions having nothing to do with the actual rental (e.g. an NDA)?

Seems to me, using the words "Guarantee", "Trust" "Peace of Mind" is no different than the customer using the term "Bribe".

but maybe this is just situation where consumers need law degrees to fully understand what it is they are getting.

AirBNB relies on economies of scale, so the remediation process should be the same for everyone since the contract is more than likely the same too, and if it is not, then "Trust", "Guarantee", "Peace of mind" are the wrong words to being used to advertise the service.

The core reason Bribe is being used, is because AirBnB was withholding payment for something that they advertised as part of the service and would only release it in exchange for an NDA. That IS dishonest.

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#115

Post by cestith »

rdl wrote: post #95
detaro wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It reads like he only submitted claims for repairs to his apartment (for whatever reason, maybe he wasn't billed for repairs/cleanup outside of it). I'd be surprised if AirBnb would cover him loosing his lease.

Maybe he had renter's insurance or something, or some other form of liability insurance? (I don't know how this works in the UK). If I were the lessor/host, I'd demand Airbnb pay 100% and then let them go after whichever other parties they want later. The host should not be the one on the hook for any of this, including float for however long reimbursement takes. (If I were Airbnb I'd probably sue the guest; clearly…

I'd be surprised if residential renter's insurance in the US, UK, or Canada covered things done during a daily sublet of the space without some special rider policy. This customer should be covered well enough by AirBNB's agreement, which apparently only with the help of The Observer is actually the case.

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#116

Post by pbhjpbhj »

tptacek wrote: post #109
gamblor956 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be a new policy now that you're the head moderator, but the reason this complaint pops up every time there's a negative post about a YC company is because for several years there was a noticeable, nearly 100% correlation between "negative post about a YC company" and "gone from the front page within 3 hours despite dozens or even hundreds of upvotes."

Dan has been the head moderator for years, and was a moderator long before it was public that he was. PG was more capricious with moderation than Dan was, but when Dan says Paul Graham believed not showing favoritism to YC was a priority of his, I believe him. Say what you want about anybody else at YC, but Dan is one of the most trustworthy people in show business. If he says a story didn't get suppressed by the mod…

>If he says a story didn't get suppressed by the mods, bank on that. //

I don't really doubt you tptacek, nor indeed doubt dang, but this is a problem with closed moderation we can't see whether YC manipulates the rankings to their benefit financially or otherwise and for those people who don't know you or dang personally there's little provable trust to be carried by such comments as you've made here.

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#117

Post by untilHellbanned »

dang wrote: post #73
bigtimeidiot wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not sure what you're alluding to I have no opinion on the matter, but clearly the OP is alluding to the fact that HN will bury negative stories about their investments.

That first tweet is about Uber. Uber is not a YC investment. It's also one of the most heavily discussed topics on HN, so it's hard to understand what's being claimed there. The idea that HN "buries stories about [YC] investments" is one some people assume must be true—as you did, for example, in your use of the word 'fact' above. But the truth is the opposite. When stories are negative about YC or YC-funded companie…

It's HN users who are more guilty of the biases in this thread.

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#118

Post by 542458 »

tptacek wrote: post #87

The irony of YC's flagship startup forcing exploding term sheets on their customers is a bit much to take. [ ps ] Airbnb's statement concluding this story says that this interaction fell short of their expectations. Maybe they can go a bit farther. Can they commit (just a comment here would suffice) to not using the exploding-settlement tactic with their clients? Maybe all they'd really need to say is that nobody out…

Edit: My apologies, I misunderstood what exploding meant in this context. My bad!

---

I'm not really sure the term sheet is "exploding". If I'm reading it right, it basically says "I absolve AirBNB of any further responsibility, and I agree not to talk about this payout". That's pretty common for a whole bunch of reasons [1].

[1]: http://www.americanbar.org/publications/gp_solo/2012/novembe...

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#119

Post by whack »

I have a friend who literally had the exact same experience a week ago. She rented her apartment to a guy for one night, and he proceeded to have a massive party filled with drugs, prostitutes, and God knows what else. Her apartment was subsequently degraded and destroyed beyond all recognition.

Thus far, Airbnb's response to her has been extremely non-reassuring. Hopefully they will do more in the coming week and remedy the situation. If not, expect a longer post with pictures soon.

It's stuff like this that gives Airbnb a bad name, and makes many people hesitant to ever use the service. I hope someone at Airbnb realises that pinching pennies and not helping hosts when they get screwed, is really going to hurt Airbnb itself in the long run.

Re: Airbnb “Bribes” Host with Cash Under NDA After Partiers Destroy Apartment

#120

Post by mikeash »

kazinator wrote: post #60
mikeash wrote: post #41

What's going on here? The first half of the story sounds like routine corporate incompetency. Representatives don't read your stuff, can't be bothered to follow their own procedures, and screw you over. Unacceptable but, alas, fairly common when dealing with big companies. The NDA is where it goes off the rails. He's entitled to that money, so why would they try to put conditions on it? I'm sure they're not thrilled…

It's not unusual for settlements to have conditions attached, which makes this NDA thing somewhat less outlandish than it seems at first. For instance, if you settle with an insurance company after a car accident, you may have to sign something which says "that is it", waiving your right to sue anyone for anything more. If the person is properly compensated 100%, but keeps talking, it can be argued that their materia…

I would only expect that to happen in a case where there's some wiggle room. For example, I might expect it if I settled with an insurance company after a car accident, but I wouldn't expect it if I was obviously owed money by my insurance company.

The case here seems completely cut-and-dried. AirBnB owes this money, so they should pay it, end of story. I'd only expect an NDA if they were paying more than they had to. Thus the question I led with: what's going on? Either AirBnB is trying to pull a fast one here, or the case is not as clean as the story makes it sound.

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