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The new £1 Coin

thenewpoundcoin.com

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Re: The new £1 Coin

#111

Post by avar »

wolfgke wrote: post #97
torrent-of-ions wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've never had a vending machine or self-service checkout reject a pound coin before? I've held ones which are noticeable lighter and more worn than a real one. You've just never really paid attention.

At least for Euro coins (are these more difficult to fake?) it often happened to me that some vending machine accepted a coin only after multiple tries.

Same for Euro notes. It often takes multiple tries of trying to straighten out the bill before a vending machine will eat it.

Re: The new £1 Coin

#112

Post by enthdegree »

Is it a curve of constant width like the 20p and 50p? If its sides are straight it cannot be.

Also from wiki:

> The new design is intended to make counterfeiting more difficult, via an undisclosed hidden security feature, called 'iSIS' (Integrated Secure Identification Systems). [1]

Huh.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_pound_(British_coin)

Re: The new £1 Coin

#113

Post by vidarh »

verbify wrote: post #60
blue1 wrote: post #7

> Hidden high security feature – a high security feature is built into the coin to protect it from counterfeiting in the future. "security through obscurity" as a feature?

Security through obscurity isn't a bad thing. The army uses security through obscurity by using camouflage. The only issue with it is when it is only 'security through obscurity'. For example, the National Institute of Standards and Technology recommends: > For external-facing servers, reconfigure service banners not to report the server and OS type and version, if possible http://nvlpubs.nist.gov/nistpubs/Legacy/SP/…

Indeed, the biggest problem with security through obscurity is not that people use it, but when people overestimate the level of protection it gives them and reduces other protections accordingly.

Re: The new £1 Coin

#115

Post by beejiu »

blue1 wrote: post #7

> Hidden high security feature – a high security feature is built into the coin to protect it from counterfeiting in the future. "security through obscurity" as a feature?

> "security through obscurity"

My understanding is there is some luminescence profile that is very easy to create from basic chemicals if you know the quantities of those chemicals. But that it is very difficult to establish the precise quantities from the luminescence profile. In effect, a "one-way chemical reaction hash".

Re: The new £1 Coin

#117

Post by rm445 »

TillE wrote: post #82
mootothemax wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That took me completely by surprise. Is there really that much of a market in counterfeit coins? The profit margins just seem so modest relative to counterfeit bills. If no one's checking for counterfeit coins, and the users themselves don't know they exist, it sounds like a pretty awesome opportunity for the counterfeiters. Just take a look at the number of comments here saying the same thing as you - from a count…

But, what do you do with your counterfeit coins? You've invested all this money and effort in minting equipment, but it would look extremely weird to spend more than like 20 at once. Unless they can fool machines, it seems very inefficient.

The UK has a large market in coin-operated gambling machines - there are heavily-regulated low-stakes ones in all kinds of non-casino locations and, I think, higher-stakes ones in legal betting shops.

A relative who works in the industry told me he sees large numbers of counterfeit pound coins. I would guess counterfeiters might launder coins through machines. Or even, though I've never seen it, sell discount coins directly to gamblers? In any case machine recognition would be a high priority. The machines in question would be relatively unsophisticated ones with a thickness gauge and a 'ski jump' that effectively checks the weight.

Re: The new £1 Coin

#118

Post by mootothemax »

DINKDINK wrote: post #106

Many commenters in this thread are speculating on how counterfeiters are inserting the, apparently large volume of, counterfeit coins. Maybe one source is actually unrepudible /merchants/. In dispensing change to customers, market participants it would seem be less likely to scrutinize the coinage.

> Many commenters in this thread are speculating on how counterfeiters are inserting the, apparently large volume of, counterfeit coins

I've written elsewhere that I reckon other criminal channels might be in use.

If you offer your street level drug dealers a choice of 1,000 pounds in "real" money or 2,000 in "fake," (or a mixture of them both) that'd probably do the job.

I'm working off the assumption that there's the exact same problem with distributing drugs.

Like, what would you do with a kilo or two of cocaine just lying around? Get many smaller dealers to handle the problem for you instead and make their money along the way.

If you also have some fake money lying around, I can't see any reason why you wound't try to combine the two.

Re: The new £1 Coin

#119

Post by Theodores »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #3

As a UK citizen, it stuns me that one-in-thirty pound coins is a fake because a) i can't imagine how it's possibly worth it b) out of the thousands of pound coins i must have handled, I've never spotted a fake - they must be very good. Still, the new coin certainly looks nice!

If you know the 'wrong' people you can buy £100 of pound coins for £40 (if they don't work in vending machines) or ~£80 (if they do work in vending machines).

This is a thing in black market channels, so, for the junkie with nothing in life except where the next high is coming from, you can imagine that they can spend all day passing off these coins to get legitimate cash back, for that next high and for that next batch of counterfeit coins to pass off.

Re: The new £1 Coin

#120

Post by taway_1212 »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #3

As a UK citizen, it stuns me that one-in-thirty pound coins is a fake because a) i can't imagine how it's possibly worth it b) out of the thousands of pound coins i must have handled, I've never spotted a fake - they must be very good. Still, the new coin certainly looks nice!

I was cheated in the most crude way in London once - gentlemen selling African street food gave me (in my change, amongst other coins) a coin that looks and feels very much like a British pound, but is Ugandian (IIRC) and has some kind of ostrich-like bird's head on it instead of the Queen's.
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