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China is spending billions on soft power

economist.com

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Re: China is spending billions on soft power

#111

Post by imjustsaying »

sosborn wrote: post #85
imjustsaying wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is in just one word to the left of that quote: "_more_ people die on waiting lists like in Canada." It's not that the free market provides a panacea utopia, it's that it's empirically better than everything else. The government system in Canada predictably and steadily broke down as efficiency left due to the lack of a free market. >The study, an annual survey of physicians from across Canada, reports a me…

Ok, but you still haven't shown any numbers regarding deaths and how they compare to America.

Well this will be my last response in playing the "but what about X" whackamole game where someone fires off a one liner and I gather data to create response after response when I've already demonstrated and evidenced the concepts and none of the axioms I've mentioned whose application would've answered that question have been addressed let alone refuted.

I've already spent significant amounts of effort in this thread gathering and summarizing data only to be repeatedly downvoted for bringing hard evidence that challenges the status quo opinion.

The study I've already cited more closely than international comparisons isolates the variable of single payer because it measures the same data points over time using the same methodology in the same country.

Comparing the US and Canada tends to be less reliable in comparison because the properties involved are more fluid, although it's still a useful comparison in some ways. Furthermore, the US healthcare system already has major single payer elements such as Medicare, which would complicate the isolation of the variable.

I just googled "difference in procedure wait times between the united states and canada" and literally every result on the front page supports the longer wait times in Canada that you asked to be shown.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2016-08-...

http://www.factcheck.org/2007/12/comparing-health-care-in-ca...

https://www.amsa.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/WaitingTimes...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_the_healthcare_s...

http://getbetterhealth.com/wait-times-for-medical-care-how-t...

https://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/06/sunday-review/long-waits-...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2585450/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3633404/

https://books.google.com/books?id=McL2UV9_QGUC&pg=PA176&lpg=...

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/sites/default/files/reducing...

Re: China is spending billions on soft power

#112

Post by prodmerc »

Blahah wrote: post #103
prodmerc wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> built using modern techniques and quality materials. Uh, I would double check that, they've been building bridges, malls and apartments in Eastern Europe and the quality was found to be subpar even by local standards (not to mention EU)...

OK yeah so I haven't closely inspected them, but compared to the way roads built by the Kenyan government are made, these ones are high quality. For example I've seen a road being laid between Nairobi and a nearby town since last June. The original road made by the county council only had a few centimetres of tarmac rolled over the bare dirt (the money for the proper materials all went missing). It disintegrated pret…

Yeah, that sounds good, I hope it lasts. I'm also hoping this time African countries won't fall victim to the shrewd business practices from up north.

Re: China is spending billions on soft power

#113

Post by hasenj »

CossieRay wrote: post #95
leesalminen wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you characterize what's happening in Africa with regards to China? Am genuinely curious.

This is highly anecdotal and based on personal (and professional) experience here in Kenya. Though the Chinese have been present in the country for a while, their signature project was the Thika Superhighway (2009-2012). This captured the imagination of everyone from citizens to the government. Since then, virtually all the major infrastructure projects have been undertaken by Chinese contractors that have set camp i…

Were there really any local engineers? If so, why haven't they built anything before the arrival of China?

Re: China is spending billions on soft power

#114

Post by product50 »

dilemma wrote: post #110
product50 wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least there are articles/opinions written down for what is happening in US which you can quote. For China, in many cases, you can't even do that given press/govt restrictions. Also, to say that China has better human rights record vs. US is almost blasphemy. Why even quote that? For the last point, what are you trying to say? Democracy doesn't work - lets all most to the communist model!? I know you are trying to…

>At least there are articles/opinions written down for what is happening in US which you can quote. For China, in many cases, you can't even do that given press/govt restrictions. Which Chinese news publications do you read?

Doesn't matter. Read this: http://time.com/4310607/china-press-freedom-media-xi-jinping...

Also, are you really trying to say that press in China has unfettered rights to publish anything? This is a country which has a giant firewall to prevent users from reading news/articles critical of it published outside China.

Re: China is spending billions on soft power

#115

Post by tim333 »

obstinate wrote: post #2

This is going to sound flippant, but I mean it very seriously. This is a much better way to spend money than spending billions to make the world hate you.

I've wondered if there was some way to demonstrate it was smarter than say military spending. Looking briefly it seems the US spends $26bn/yr on non military aid and about $600bn on military stuff. I'd guess if they spend $500bn on military and another $100bn on soft power / direct cash to the starving etc the world would be safer and happier. How to prove it for the budget controlling politicians though?

I mean $40bn for the 40m at risk of starvation in Ethiopia, Kenya and Somalia given directly would not only stop starvation but pull the whole region out of poverty and do more to make people think the US cool than spending that on nukes they don't need say.

Re: China is spending billions on soft power

#116

Post by tim333 »

mazerackham wrote: post #54
tehabe wrote: post #28

It would be cheaper to open up the country, introduce a democratic system and actual human rights, and abolish the death penality. Make peace with Tibet, agree with Taiwan on a good neighborhood. Support a democratic change also in North Korea. These would actually make China a country I could support, but currently: no, thank you.

this is such a prototypical example of utter western bullshit. Likely near zero understanding of politics, just grew up with the words "democracy" being shoved into your ears repeatedly. Do you really believe that China's 1.3 billion people would be better off if the country just switched itself to American styled "democracy"? Look at who our democracy just elected.

They've tried democracy on Chinese people in Taiwan. Seems to work. More GNP, human rights, clean air etc. than the mainland. No Trumps yet.

Re: China is spending billions on soft power

#117

Post by nindalf »

hasenj wrote: post #113
CossieRay wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is highly anecdotal and based on personal (and professional) experience here in Kenya. Though the Chinese have been present in the country for a while, their signature project was the Thika Superhighway (2009-2012). This captured the imagination of everyone from citizens to the government. Since then, virtually all the major infrastructure projects have been undertaken by Chinese contractors that have set camp i…

Were there really any local engineers? If so, why haven't they built anything before the arrival of China?

If you're a civil engineer in Kenya you can't simply create an infrastructure startup and build the country. Such a business requires many skills not related to engineering, for starters. You need to know which wheels to grease in government and how. You need to have appreciable investment to fund your equipment. You need to have reliable supervisors who won't steal and will keep the work on schedule. You can't simply start up, get funded and move fast while breaking things.

According to the Kenyan resident in the thread , it was corruption that was stymiying progress. That's something that Chinese contractors have bypassed.

Re: China is spending billions on soft power

#119

Post by herbst »

SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #13
obstinate wrote: post #2

This is going to sound flippant, but I mean it very seriously. This is a much better way to spend money than spending billions to make the world hate you.

You have your numbers wrong. The US does spend... Well, hundreds of billions on making the world love US. The actual problem is two-fold: 1. We spend trillions on making them hate the US. 2. We aren't actually very efficient with the hundreds of billions we spend on making them love the US. It's spent on short-sighted projects that often transparently benefit the US at the cost of the locals. To some degree, this is…

What kind of efforts are you talking a out? From my perspective the hate against the US. is only growing with barely anything holding against that.

Re: China is spending billions on soft power

#120

Post by sosborn »

imjustsaying wrote: post #111
sosborn wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but you still haven't shown any numbers regarding deaths and how they compare to America.

Well this will be my last response in playing the "but what about X" whackamole game where someone fires off a one liner and I gather data to create response after response when I've already demonstrated and evidenced the concepts and none of the axioms I've mentioned whose application would've answered that question have been addressed let alone refuted. I've already spent significant amounts of effort in this threa…

I was specifically addressing your claims about deaths. How many more people die on waiting lists in Canada?
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