Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems • Hacker News Board

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#111

Post by 0x4a42 » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 2:04 PM UTC

douche wrote: post #100

rincebrain wrote: post #39

This seems like they have enormous pressure from on high to make sure Windows 7 doesn't become another XP that they have to support for 15 years By Any Means Necessary. If circumstances were different, I might even be applauding them for taking strong corrective actions against another XP doomsday scenario, or for moving to rolling release, both of which seem like great plans. The reason I'm not is that Windows 10 fe…

If you can get it[1], install the Windows 10 LTSB (Long Term Servicing Branch) installation[2]. It has all the kernel-level improvements that make Windows 10 better than 7, without all of the bullshit that was sprinkled on top of the consumer versions of Windows 10. [1] Currently seems to be restricted to enterprise licensing agreements or MSDN subscribers. Or other places... [2] https://www.howtogeek.com/273824/wind…

But Win10 LTSB doesn't have Edge.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#112

Post by phkahler » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 2:05 PM UTC

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #77

iliketosleep wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft's willingness to actively disrupt its users (whether it's through forced updates or artifical limitations) is indeed a tipping point for me. I always chose Windows for its convenience, and the fact that I could use it on my own terms. Clearly, this is no longer the case. As for Stallman, there's a fine line between a madman and a genius. Reality has shown us that he definitely is not a madman.

> As for Stallman, there's a fine line between a madman and a genius. Reality has shown us that he definitely is not a madman. I'm not so sure the two are mutually exclusive.

Some people could see his point by thinking about it. To them he was a genius. Others thought he was a madman because his point was too hypothetical for them, but now that it's becoming a reality they can see he was a genius all along.

You may say that it's because they couldn't see the future, but RMS experienced it back in the 1970's at MIT. Things have not actually changed, they've just started to influence a wider swath of the population.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#113

Post by reacweb » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 2:06 PM UTC

cptskippy wrote: post #101

joosters wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are splitting hairs. My dad's PC was as useful as a brick to him after it downloaded Windows 7 and then wouldn't boot. If you think 'reinstall' is an acceptable or realistic solution for average users, you are badly mistaken.

You act as if this is something unique to Microsoft. Ubuntu distro upgrades were so bad (don't know if they still are) that you were better off reformatting and reinstalling. If the upgrade didn't flat out brick the device, it was almost certain to screw up drivers and setting beyond repair of even more power users. Apple had it's fair share of El Capitan and Sierra upgrade brickings and those require you to take you…

I do ubuntu dist-upgrade since 2009. I have done 2 full reinstall. Once to try linux-mint. And another one a little latter when I bought a new ssd drive (switched to ubuntu gnome).

The main upgrade issue was with systemd in 16.04: it found a dependency loop between net access and my nas drive and decided to cancel net access.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#114

Post by andai » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 2:06 PM UTC

NetStrikeForce wrote: post #108

einr wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Windows 7 is as old as Ubuntu 9.04. It's about as obsolete as it gets. It's time to let it go, man. Problem is, there's still no reasonable alternative if you need to run Windows software. Windows 7 is the last stand of Windows that doesn't actively hate and work against the user, so there are some very real reasons to stick with it. Hopefully when Windows 7 "extended support" runs out, ReactOS will be able to ru…

What's so unreasonable about Windows 10 that you prefer to suffer all that pain and get less out of your hardware?

Actions speak louder than words. With Windows 10, Microsoft is basically saying, "f* you."

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#115

Post by andai » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 2:11 PM UTC

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #90

iliketosleep wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft's willingness to actively disrupt its users (whether it's through forced updates or artifical limitations) is indeed a tipping point for me. I always chose Windows for its convenience, and the fact that I could use it on my own terms. Clearly, this is no longer the case. As for Stallman, there's a fine line between a madman and a genius. Reality has shown us that he definitely is not a madman.

Ah, yes, how absolutely shocking that Microsoft should choose not to support a processor that didn't even exist at the time that version of Windows was released. Why, everyone knows, especially on HN, that updating and retesting software costs nothing at all and so that's why we all eagerly go back and retrofit all versions of software we've ever released, no matter how old, to support the latest hardware just as soo…

Upvoted because it's true: Microsoft has no obligation to support old software, any more than it has an obligation to respect its users. I mean, it would be nice if they did, but clearly they aren't in it to do good for the world.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#116

Post by thr0waway1239 » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 2:13 PM UTC

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #90

iliketosleep wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft's willingness to actively disrupt its users (whether it's through forced updates or artifical limitations) is indeed a tipping point for me. I always chose Windows for its convenience, and the fact that I could use it on my own terms. Clearly, this is no longer the case. As for Stallman, there's a fine line between a madman and a genius. Reality has shown us that he definitely is not a madman.

Ah, yes, how absolutely shocking that Microsoft should choose not to support a processor that didn't even exist at the time that version of Windows was released. Why, everyone knows, especially on HN, that updating and retesting software costs nothing at all and so that's why we all eagerly go back and retrofit all versions of software we've ever released, no matter how old, to support the latest hardware just as soo…

>> I'm sorry for the early morning jocularity but I just can't take this topic seriously

No worries. Seeing as you have missed the point of the parent's comment, its not surprising you overestimated how jocular your comment is.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#117

Post by reacweb » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 2:14 PM UTC

rincebrain wrote: post #39

This seems like they have enormous pressure from on high to make sure Windows 7 doesn't become another XP that they have to support for 15 years By Any Means Necessary. If circumstances were different, I might even be applauding them for taking strong corrective actions against another XP doomsday scenario, or for moving to rolling release, both of which seem like great plans. The reason I'm not is that Windows 10 fe…

XP was the last unobtrusive OS of microsoft.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#118

Post by andai » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 2:15 PM UTC

seanp2k2 wrote: post #47

joelthelion wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know another way they could increase Windows 10 adoption? By making it better, not worse, than past offerings. Adware baked into my OS? No thanks.

But it has DX12 which is what your games crave. Also, Linux subsystem is neat and you can get powershell (great for disabling all the spyware they include which doesn't have any GUI controls).

I think the problem is while they certainly made it better in many ways, they also made it worse in arguably more important ways (disrespecting the user).

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#119

Post by andai » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 2:19 PM UTC

morrbo wrote: post #70

The main thing that annoys me about this is that i've been having major problems with Windows 10. I previously ran server 2012 as my daily driver, which was fine for everything i needed to do on Windows (run visual studio, play overwatch, basically). I've installed Windows 10 LTSB (which is the true enterprise version of Windows 10, with all of the apps etc. removed [telemetry still remains and has to be manually dis…

Two questions: Did you have problems with w10 LTSB which you didn't have with regular w10, or was it the same with both?

And how did you get LTSB? I read it's $7 a month but I don't understand if anyone can get it or you need to sign up as a company.

Re: Microsoft Blocks Windows 7/8 Updates on AMD Ryzen and Intel Kaby Lake Systems

#120

Post by brudgers » Thu, Mar 16, 2017, 2:21 PM UTC

Jedd wrote: post #2

> This error occurs because new processor generations require the latest Windows version for support. Can someone explain this better? It feels like the direction of 'support' has been inverted. I thought all these new CPU's were supersets of the instruction set of previous gen i386/amd64 processors?

Contemporary commodity CPU's have all sorts of features that important customers want [1]. You probably are not an important customer if you don't own multiple large data centers of the sort located next to hydro-electric dams and who causes price drops on used high end Xeons when you upgrade the data center hardware.

The CPU inside a CPU is vulnerable and it changes with every tic and toc. Windows 7 is pushing 8 years old and was designed around older and almost certainly early generation Management Engine designs (and perhaps a few down the road iterations of it). But it wasn't designed with data from the field about attacks and exploits. Windows 8 is largely a reskinning of Windows 7 and probably has similar vulnerabilities in regard to accessing the CPU in the CPU if such vulnerabilities exist.

Windows 10 has a somewhat different architecture and almost certainly has been designed considering ME and AMD's spin on it from the ground up and reflects all those years of experience from field deployments and the CPU vendors current roadmaps. Importantly, Windows 10 is designed with the idea that future experience will require changing the code.

Anyway, my suspicion is that the internal security model of at least some contemporary chips are considered to have probable or actual vulnerabilities exposed by Windows 7/8 and the business decision is that the most effective way of mitigating those vulnerabilities is simply to not support the consumer use case of buying new hardware and then running old versions of Windows on it.

The business case I am imagining runs along the lines of how much damage would Microsoft suffer if there was a problem versus how much damage it suffers from pissing off a handful of edge case users (considering that the majority of the noise will come from people who don't use Windows).

[1]: example AMT, etc. https://boingboing.net/2016/06/15/intel-x86-processors-ship-...