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Japan's Universities Are Failing

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Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#111

Post by edblarney »

krapp wrote: post #96
grillvogel wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so all japan needs to do is completely destroy their own culture, its so simple now

Japan has been influenced by the rest of the world for millennia - just recently there was an article posted to HN about ancient Persia having envoys to Imperial Japan[0,1], to say nothing of China, which is probably responsible for just about everything you associate with "Japanese culture," or the Western influences behind the Meiji restoration and postwar government. All cultures change over time, even the ones th…

Being 'influenced' by other places is definitely not the same thing as mass migration.

We often think of 'Tea' as a very English thing (and it is in many ways now), but of course it has it's roots in China/Asia i.e. global trade.

The Japanese borrowed ideas from elsewhere for quite some time (as has everyone of course), but they would view 'building Western warships' as something very different from 'importing millions of Westerners'.

Also, one could argue that Japan, for a variety of reasons, was far more isolated than other places.

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#112

Post by flamedoge »

ng12 wrote: post #99
ue_ wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does immigration mean that you're "destroying their own culture"? Please stop talking in hyperbole and being sarcastic, it isn't helpful. I can't see why a unique culture ought to be 'preserved' as people say, either. And I can't see why the 'bad' parts cannot be slowly eroded over time. Nor do I see why certain 'races' ought to be kept. This has always been an argument that's been relatively ignored - why exactl…

> It is ultimately the decision of the Japanese citizens I mean, that's exactly it. Why is it so shocking an idea that the Japanese apparently prefer to retain their homogeneity even if it weakens their economy?

It's not.

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#113

Post by edblarney »

ng12 wrote: post #99
ue_ wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does immigration mean that you're "destroying their own culture"? Please stop talking in hyperbole and being sarcastic, it isn't helpful. I can't see why a unique culture ought to be 'preserved' as people say, either. And I can't see why the 'bad' parts cannot be slowly eroded over time. Nor do I see why certain 'races' ought to be kept. This has always been an argument that's been relatively ignored - why exactl…

> It is ultimately the decision of the Japanese citizens I mean, that's exactly it. Why is it so shocking an idea that the Japanese apparently prefer to retain their homogeneity even if it weakens their economy?

I don't think it's fair to assume that 'lack of immigration' = 'bad economy'.

There are tons of places in the world with fairly massive immigration and/or multicultural societies - that are far worse than Japan.

Brazil is a very, very multi-ethnic and blended society - and it's not exactly a paradise.

In fact - the opposite may be true: Japan is not a huge-huge country, and they hit massively 'above their weight' on so many things.

One could possibly argue that their ethnic cohesion and national identity are actually drivers of their success.

On the whole I guess it's hard to tell, but again I don't think it's fair to always assume 'immigration = good for economy'.

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#114

Post by jimmywanger »

akhilcacharya wrote: post #52
DashRattlesnake wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really don't see a way out for Japan that's not immigration. That's a pretty small-minded and dogmatic statement; it basically amounts to "copy US policy, it's the only way." At some point, someone in the world is going to actually have to solve the problem of stagnant or declining populations, without copping out and just importing new populations from elsewhere.

Well, that "US way" has worked better than every other developed country in that respect, why not adopt it?

The US was amazingly gifted by geography and natural resources.

Trying to credit America's success on the "US Way" is fallacious - I don't think we'd be much worse off if we were ruled by a monarchy, or even an extremely ethnically homogenous culture, since we're protected by two oceans, have massive oil and mineral and forest reserves, and had the native population decimated by infectious diseases before we moved in.

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#115

Post by rtpg »

edblarney wrote: post #108
_rjlt wrote: post #23

I really don't see a way out for Japan that's not immigration. It might lead to social upheaval, but it sounds like that kind of change is sorely needed. A well executed immigration policy could inject fresh blood into that country.

'The only way for Japan to progress is to abolish Japanese culture in favour of multiculturalism'. ... is how many people in the other parts of the world would view that position. Maybe it's hard to understand for 'New World' people, who don't really have a sense of their own ethnicity, but it's very different elsewhere. 'Japan' is not so much a 'nationality' in the modern, Western sense. 'Japan' is the place where t…

No culture has escaped appropriation and mixing, especially not Japan. So much of modern Japanese life has been molded by the American occupation.

Why do you think more non-Japanese people in the country means the end of Japanese culture? I know many foreigners who live long-term in Japan and have absorbed many ways of working in the society. Why do you think they stay?

Ultimiately, the base belief behind the anti-multicuturalism position is that culture cannot/will not be learned.

Think about the trope of all the people moving to the US for the American Dream. Have they not accepted American culture? People move place for reasons beyond economics.

I think your example is more a case of the Protestant work ethic coming into play (people should help themselves)

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#116

Post by krapp »

grillvogel wrote: post #93
astrange wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern Japan was founded in 1868 and then destroyed and rebuilt again in WW2. The people have been there that long, but the country and culture haven't.

i dont even know where to begin with how wrong this is. what culture is something like Todai-Ji a part of? since japan was apparently invented in 1868

>what culture is something like Todai-Ji a part of?

China.

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#117

Post by ue_ »

ng12 wrote: post #106
ue_ wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why is it so shocking an idea that the Japanese apparently prefer to retain their homogeneity even if it weakens their economy? Is this true? How do you know?

I'm mostly judging by the fact that Japan is a democratic country in which immigration is incredibly restricted. The country is over 98% ethnically Japanese.

That's not evidence; you'll have to show that at least 50% of the population believe in 'preserving Japanese identity' and have voted as such to limit immigration, for that purpose. Otherwise you're talking from nothing, just your intuition. It's an easy intuition to have, I'll give you that.

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#118

Post by ng12 »

ue_ wrote: post #117
ng12 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm mostly judging by the fact that Japan is a democratic country in which immigration is incredibly restricted. The country is over 98% ethnically Japanese.

That's not evidence; you'll have to show that at least 50% of the population believe in 'preserving Japanese identity' and have voted as such to limit immigration, for that purpose. Otherwise you're talking from nothing, just your intuition. It's an easy intuition to have, I'll give you that.

I thought the use of "apparently" would imply it was intuition.

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#119

Post by maus42 »

edblarney wrote: post #108
_rjlt wrote: post #23

I really don't see a way out for Japan that's not immigration. It might lead to social upheaval, but it sounds like that kind of change is sorely needed. A well executed immigration policy could inject fresh blood into that country.

'The only way for Japan to progress is to abolish Japanese culture in favour of multiculturalism'. ... is how many people in the other parts of the world would view that position. Maybe it's hard to understand for 'New World' people, who don't really have a sense of their own ethnicity, but it's very different elsewhere. 'Japan' is not so much a 'nationality' in the modern, Western sense. 'Japan' is the place where t…

I was confused about your use of the word "nation in the modern Western sense" first there. It used to mean more or less same thing in the West, especially in Europe. Of course the construction of nation-states and their borders in Europe during the 19th century was often quite arbitrary compared to the Japanese who live on an island and have done so for ages.

Re: Japan's Universities Are Failing

#120

Post by gydfi »

omginternets wrote: post #37
ajeet_dhaliwal wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you measure if it has merit? No one can know for sure if the report has merit, it's their opinion based on their metrics and what they consider to be important properties to measure, like I said it's not an exact science.

Indeed, postmodernism is not a science at all. Test of us non-postmodernists value an education system capable of producing competent elites, who in turn produce value for society (measure that how you like). By that measure, it's pretty apparent that Japan's universities are doing poorly. And the Japanese agree with this, in case you missed it. Please stop with this nauseating pedantry.

Japan is going pretty well last I checked. It's one of the few places that is successfully transitioning to a lower birth rate via population shrinkage rather than mass immigration, enabling them to maintain their own culture and people.
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