Earlier quoted context omitted.
On the other hand, allowing stuff that you don't understand gives us things like the CSRF vulnerabilities in MongoDB and such. In the case of a security appliance -- such as this -- it should, in my opinion, "fail closed".
Sorry, no. TLS is explicitly designed to allow smooth upgrading like this. This proxy is supposed to (in response to a client hello w/ TLSv1.3) respond with TLSv1.2 if that's what it supports. This is still a rigorous parsing of the input being given: nothing is "not understood": version negotiation is an inherent part of the protocol and is supposed to allow for painless upgrades to more secure protocols. The RFC (w…
BlueCoat and other proxies hang up during TLS 1.3
111–120 of 216 posts
Re: BlueCoat and other proxies hang up during TLS 1.3
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
When connecting a corporate device to any non-corporate network (including the employee wifi) you can't go anywhere until the vpn is connected. The vpn routes you through all the same inspection points as being on premise.
Is both SSH and USB key / USB DVD burner usage completely disabled on your corporate devices? If not, obvious workaround is obvious.
Re: BlueCoat and other proxies hang up during TLS 1.3
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Board doesn't have a choice, under CIPA[0], content filtering is a requirement for the FCC's E-Rate program[1] in which the government pays some of the cost of the school's internet connection. [0] https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/childrens-internet-prot... [1] https://www.fcc.gov/general/universal-service-program-school...
Of course they have a choice. It's not very princinpled to sell your children's online privacy in exchange for some "grant" money going to an oppressive-dictatorship supporting company like BlueCoat. (Also it's possible can do server address based blocking without MITM)
Re: BlueCoat and other proxies hang up during TLS 1.3
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think this SSL MITM thing has gone way too far. When an exec asks an engineer if it's possible to monitor all internet communication that goes in and out of the company network, including communication that is encrypted by TLS, the correct answer is no. In fact, this specific thing is what TLS is designed to prevent, and new implementations of the protocol are only going to get better at preventing it. The exec wil…
> In fact, this specific thing is what TLS is designed to prevent, and new implementations of the protocol are only going to get better at preventing it. This isn't true. The TLS protocol is not a philosophy; it does not have an opinion on who you should trust as a root certificate authority. If you trust a particular root, it is wholly within the design of TLS to allow connections that are monitored by whoever contr…
Like the sibling comment said, this goes against the wording of the TLS specification, but I also think this is looking at the issue from the wrong perspective: from the perspective of the network admin rather than the user. The user does not trust the MITM proxy's fake root. Let's say you set up a corporate network and rather than just whitelisting the external IPs you trust, you give your users the freedom to browse the internet but you pipe everything through a BlueCoat proxy. Your users will take advantage of this freedom to do things like, say, checking their bank balance. When the user connects to the banking website, they will initialize a TLS session, the purpose of which is to keep their communication with their bank confidential. The user will assume their communication is confidential because of the green padlock in their address bar and the bank will assume their communication is confidential because it is happening over TLS. TLS MITM violates these assumptions. If the bank knew that a third party could see the plaintext of the communication, they probably would not allow the connection. If I ran a high-security website, I'd probably look for clues like the X-BlueCoat-Via HTTP header and just drop the connection if I found any.
> As for your list of ways such a system could be circumvented, I don't understand the logic of it. So because there are ways around a security measure, you shouldn't use the security measure at all?
In some cases, yeah. There are a lot of security measures out there that are just implemented to tick some boxes and don't provide much practical value. If they don't provide much value, but they actively interfere with real security measures (for example, by delaying the rollout of TLS 1.3) or they're just another point of failure and additional attack surface (bad proxies can leak confidential data, cf. Cloudflare,) they should be removed. I'll admit most bad guys are incompetent, but it's dangerous to assume they all are, because that gives the competent ones a lot of power, and someone who is competent enough to know that a network uses a TLS MITM proxy will just add another layer of encryption. (Or, like some other comments are suggesting, they'll just test your physical security instead and try to take the data out on a flash drive.)
Re: BlueCoat and other proxies hang up during TLS 1.3
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
This exact issue occurred with TLS 1.2 back when BlueCoat only understood 1.1/1.0. Good grief! From David Benjamin's final comment: Note these issues are always bugs in the middlebox products. TLS version negotiation is backwards compatible, so a correctly-implemented TLS-terminating proxy should not require changes to work in a TLS-1.3-capable ecosystem. It can simply speak TLS 1.2 at both client proxy and proxy ser…
It sounds like it might be a worthwhile effort to reverse engineer one of those.
Which holds trusted secret keys and which, in its normal unremarkable operation, intercepts, parses, reconstructs, decrypts, re-encrypts, forwards, and optionally logs both confidential and attacker-controlled traffic? And is also known to be used for nationwide bulk internet censorship by regimes often called 'oppressive'?
Why, doesn't it just.
Please consider, very carefully, the ethics and equities issues one might face with any interesting findings here.
Re: BlueCoat and other proxies hang up during TLS 1.3
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
There was a paper posted on HN a few weeks back by some pretty serious security researchers on the security risks of SSL MITM boxes. https://jhalderm.com/pub/papers/interception-ndss17.pdf How do you fix this when you're naught but a humble employee? Well, a friend of mine worked at a fairly large tech company where a salesguy for these boxes had convinced the CTO they had to have them. Every tech-person "on the floo…
Yeah. This is a firable offense. The solution to your company MITM your traffic is not to use your work computer for anything personal that matters. It's not like if we had a shortage of devices to connect to the internet.
This isn't just a fireable offense. Especially given the tendency for computer-related criminal laws to be overly vague, it's entirely possible you could be charged with a crime if you are intentionally trying to DoS your employer's network.
Re: BlueCoat and other proxies hang up during TLS 1.3
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
BlueCoat are an incredibly evil company that are breaking the internet.
BlueCoat makes me cry. We have an application running inside the firewall of one of our clients that communicates with a HTTPS REST API hosted by a server in our datacenter. The connection must be encrypted because it handles confidential information, but when it passes through BlueCoat's TLS proxy, the Authorization header gets mangled and it can't authenticate against our backend. Higher-ups decided that it would b…
Re: BlueCoat and other proxies hang up during TLS 1.3
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
They should lobby the school board not to do this nonsense.
The Board doesn't have a choice, under CIPA[0], content filtering is a requirement for the FCC's E-Rate program[1] in which the government pays some of the cost of the school's internet connection. [0] https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/childrens-internet-prot... [1] https://www.fcc.gov/general/universal-service-program-school...
AIUI CIPA doesn't require MITM but most schools interpret it that way.
Re: BlueCoat and other proxies hang up during TLS 1.3
#119Re: BlueCoat and other proxies hang up during TLS 1.3
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Board doesn't have a choice, under CIPA[0], content filtering is a requirement for the FCC's E-Rate program[1] in which the government pays some of the cost of the school's internet connection. [0] https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/childrens-internet-prot... [1] https://www.fcc.gov/general/universal-service-program-school...
>> content filtering is a requirement for the FCC's E-Rate program in which the government pays some of the cost of the school's internet connection. I'd be interested to see the cost of compliance versus the subsidy. The federal government puts an awful lot of strings on financing for schools given the relatively low percentage of overall funding they pay. I'd like to see some state somewhere turn down the money and…