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On Loneliness

krishnamurti-teachings.info

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Re: On Loneliness

#111

Post by problems »

EricDeb wrote: post #109
problems wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not "understanding how things work" in a meaningful technical way, but in a non-testable, non-provable, "spiritual" way. One which I don't care much for and which I find frequently misleading.

Spiritual inquiry of this nature is not completely illogical. It's frequently shown that the free will humans believe they have is an illusion, and the topic of identification of the ego is revered enough to be included in psychiatric textbooks. The concept of consciousness is very pertinent to AI. I believe these topics are relevant enough.

> Spiritual inquiry of this nature is not completely illogical.

Source? I cannot name a time when it has produced meaningful and repeatable results. Therefore I'd say it's illogical.

Re: On Loneliness

#112

Post by ZenoArrow »

tech_browser wrote: post #91
ZenoArrow wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"There are supplementary texts that also discuss the approaches to attain it." The more interesting question is, why are you trying to attain it? What is it that makes people seek enlightenment?

The answer is simple. A human's life remains unfulfilled regardless of his material gains such as wealth and pleasures. The fear of oldage, death and disease looms large and so does the uncertainty of the future. If one were to examine the world objectively, one would find that whatever I've mentioned above is seen aplenty. The entirety of a human's life is based on the notion I-am-the-body-and-the-mind. If one were…

>"There's every reason to pursue Self-realization or enlightenment as the only worthy goal of life. Such a goal never comes in one's way of being employed, raising a family etc."

What if the only way to understand it was to not pursue it?

Re: On Loneliness

#113

Post by blueprint »

Of course I'm going to get flamed for this but this guy has written a bunch of nonsense.

"Love and emptiness cannot abide together; when there is the feeling of loneliness, love is not. "

1. Emptiness is not the same thing as loneliness.

2. If you feel anything bad while you think you feel empty then that's not actual emptiness.

3. When you practice true love for others it makes you lonely because it makes everyone abandon you. How does he reconcile those? He can't.

"You will ask, then what is love? Love is a state of being in which thought is not; but the very definition of love is a process of thought, and so it is not love."

That's not a definition. That's coincident phenomena with an effect of true love. But other things can make you stop "thinking". Such as losing oneself. Or taking drugs habitually. QED.

Only a person who has lost his own self can say the sorts of things that Krishnamurti said. Please: Beware of everything. He did not have a real enlightenment. When you ask a real enlightened teacher what love is, they can tell you on the spot. Love is blessing. Blessings are that which enable or cause a good result for something or for it to change for the better. That's a wholly completely different quality of definition than spending hundreds of pages making up one's own words for the purpose of instilling his spirit into others. The only reason I can give the correct definition while Krishnamurti could not is that I learned it from someone who actually knew and could verify his answers.

Re: On Loneliness

#114

Post by mr_pink »

antisocial wrote: post #37

The following is a gem - this has been my guiding star for more than a decade. The self hides in many ways, under every stone, the self can hide in compassion, going to India and looking after poor people, because the self is attached to some idea, faith, conclusion, belief, which makes me compassionate because I love Jesus or Krishna, and I go up to heaven. The self has many masks, the mask of meditation, the mask o…

Eh, could say the same about anything. Replace self with Love, God, Satan, etc.

Re: On Loneliness

#115

Post by tech_browser »

ZenoArrow wrote: post #112
tech_browser wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer is simple. A human's life remains unfulfilled regardless of his material gains such as wealth and pleasures. The fear of oldage, death and disease looms large and so does the uncertainty of the future. If one were to examine the world objectively, one would find that whatever I've mentioned above is seen aplenty. The entirety of a human's life is based on the notion I-am-the-body-and-the-mind. If one were…

>"There's every reason to pursue Self-realization or enlightenment as the only worthy goal of life. Such a goal never comes in one's way of being employed, raising a family etc." What if the only way to understand it was to not pursue it?

You are right. To beginners, self-realization is pointed as a goal worthy of pursuit. As one treads along this path, one realizes that nothing new is to be pursued or attained. If the Self were attainable as an object with the passage of time (and some exertion), it is not a worthy goal since everything within the realm of time will perish. The Self is ever-realized. One only needs to forego incorrect notions and predilections for the Self to manifest in all its glory. This is the method recommended by many teachers of non-duality to know the Self. In fact, there is nothing akin to knowing the Self, for it would then become an object and the division of seer-seen will again appear. To know the Self is to Be the Self.

Re: On Loneliness

#116

Post by draw_down »

blueprint wrote: post #113

Of course I'm going to get flamed for this but this guy has written a bunch of nonsense. "Love and emptiness cannot abide together; when there is the feeling of loneliness, love is not. " 1. Emptiness is not the same thing as loneliness. 2. If you feel anything bad while you think you feel empty then that's not actual emptiness. 3. When you practice true love for others it makes you lonely because it makes everyone a…

Yikes.

Re: On Loneliness

#117

Post by Arjuna »

andrepd wrote: post #89
quakeguy wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All you touch, and all you see is all your life will ever be. -Pink Floyd, TdSotM

Hmm. What do you reckon is the meaning of this line?

My personal take...

The lyric expresses a longing to know more, but alas, we are forever confined to our senses; similar to Kant's perspective, which suggests that, although we can know information about a thing (i.e., via the senses, "touch" and "see", as the lyric suggests), we can never know a thing in and of itself (i.e., outside of our senses). We can only ever experience a sense-based representation of a thing, and not the thing's true nature.

Moreover, we cannot touch (i.e., experience) or see (again, experience) anything outside of the present moment. No matter what changes, we are locked in the moment, because there is no past or future, in the sense that we can experience those concepts now (i.e., there is only the present moment in time). Everything that has ever happened, occurred in a series of present moments.

The lyric expresses these truths, while intertwined with a saturnine feeling; that is, we are bound by our senses, and bound by the moment, but we long to experience more. However, it is all we ever have; it is: "all your life will ever be."

Re: On Loneliness

#118

Post by ZenoArrow »

armitron wrote: post #95
ZenoArrow wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"There are supplementary texts that also discuss the approaches to attain it." The more interesting question is, why are you trying to attain it? What is it that makes people seek enlightenment?

The initial impetus is not really important. It may have been something as trivial as a book, or a friend, or somebody on TV. People start all sorts of pursuits for all sorts of silly reasons, and usually end up abandoning them for the next-best-thing to come along. Promises of a better life ("the end of suffering!") are tempting to the unfortunate and downtrodden. A better question to ask is what _keeps_ people dedi…

>"One gets all the validation one needs, not from teachers or gurus, but by direct experiential knowledge."

Sure, I have no problem with that. However, if you let your past experiences define who you are, it'll always limit you, even if your past experiences include 'glimpses of the absolute'.

Simply put, the most common mode of human existence is that of a storyteller. If you see connections between event A and event B you're telling a story. There's no harm in that, it's a natural part of who we are. Of course there are moments where the self fades and the story has less of a structured narrative, but we still find ways to tie it together.

I like to ask myself this, if someone achieves enlightenment, what do they do with the rest of their life? Are they going to spend their time maximising their new found connection to their senses? What gives pleasure to someone who minimises personal attachment?

Re: On Loneliness

#119

Post by fsiefken »

I was a big fan of Krishnamurti in my teenage years, still am, even though I now think religion and ritual can also be a good away to approach 'Truth'. For those knowing a bit about this guy, this is a nice and humorous 'skeptical' way of looking at Jiddu. In Jiddu's spirit, stripping him of his guru-ship http://www.strippingthegurus.com/stgsamplechapters/krishnamu...

Re: On Loneliness

#120

Post by paolomaffei »

mr_pink wrote: post #114
antisocial wrote: post #37

The following is a gem - this has been my guiding star for more than a decade. The self hides in many ways, under every stone, the self can hide in compassion, going to India and looking after poor people, because the self is attached to some idea, faith, conclusion, belief, which makes me compassionate because I love Jesus or Krishna, and I go up to heaven. The self has many masks, the mask of meditation, the mask o…

Eh, could say the same about anything. Replace self with Love, God, Satan, etc.

Precisely, ultimately everything is empty.
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