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A secret of many urban 20-somethings: Their parents help with the rent

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Re: A secret of many urban 20-somethings: Their parents help with the rent

#111

Post by blurbleblurble »

gnaritas wrote: post #52
blurbleblurble wrote: post #35

This makes me think hard about universal basic income. If average incomes went up, how long would it take for those with monopolies on basic needs to raise the prices? Not long, I'm sure. Unless rentier capitalism is somehow cut out of the picture, if the government provided $10,000/yr, then $10,000/yr could very quickly become the new "poverty". If banks (via landlords' debts) are squeezing people now, whats stoppin…

BI won't increase average income, it'll simply redistribute income from the top down to the bottom so the average will stay the same. BI will reduce income for those at the top as their taxes will go up much more than they'll get back in BI. BI will increase income for those on the margin, not across the board, so the market rates simply can't go up across the board, BI isn't creating new money and thus won't cause g…

Ideally BI doesn't come from an inflated money supply, but if the money-holders refuse to pay taxes, where's it gonna come from? I have a feeling that unless the architects of BI can tack that point to the legislation, it's gonna be a glossed over in the dysfunctional halls of government. "The left" will take on more government debt out of necessity to keep society functioning, while dysfunctional elements of "the right" take on government debt seemingly out of contempt for big government...

Re: A secret of many urban 20-somethings: Their parents help with the rent

#112

Post by blurbleblurble »

sokoloff wrote: post #74
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no. Say I'm a billionaire (I wish). I've got all this money. It's not going into food and rent. (OK, a tiny amount is going into food, but I can only eat three meals a day. And "rent" is more likely buying multi-million-dollar homes.) My money's in investments, maybe some luxuries. Now we go to BI. Now millions of what used to be my money are going to low-income people. They're spending it on food and rent. N…

Absolutely. If I can find some inside track that UBI is coming, I'll be buying a lot of low-end rental property, hopefully before it runs up.

It's like a game of Monopoly where everyone gets more money, including the people who already have Board Walk and Park Place, etc. #WWJD? Flip the board over. Jubilee.

Re: A secret of many urban 20-somethings: Their parents help with the rent

#113

Post by [deleted] »

sokoloff wrote: post #74
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no. Say I'm a billionaire (I wish). I've got all this money. It's not going into food and rent. (OK, a tiny amount is going into food, but I can only eat three meals a day. And "rent" is more likely buying multi-million-dollar homes.) My money's in investments, maybe some luxuries. Now we go to BI. Now millions of what used to be my money are going to low-income people. They're spending it on food and rent. N…

Absolutely. If I can find some inside track that UBI is coming, I'll be buying a lot of low-end rental property, hopefully before it runs up.

[deleted]

Re: A secret of many urban 20-somethings: Their parents help with the rent

#114

Post by flukus »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #60
gnaritas wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> basic income is actually just a continuation of the same inflationary alchemy It's no such thing; not remotely. BI isn't new money, it's simply a redistribution of money from those with more to those with less. It won't increase the money supply and thus doesn't cause inflation.

Yes and no. Say I'm a billionaire (I wish). I've got all this money. It's not going into food and rent. (OK, a tiny amount is going into food, but I can only eat three meals a day. And "rent" is more likely buying multi-million-dollar homes.) My money's in investments, maybe some luxuries. Now we go to BI. Now millions of what used to be my money are going to low-income people. They're spending it on food and rent. N…

The free market is a tool, a really good one, but just a tool. If it stops producing desirable outcomes then we can use other tools.

Most nations have government housing which serves not just to house the poorest but to put a cap on how much people in the next rung up of society are willing to pay for housing.

Re: A secret of many urban 20-somethings: Their parents help with the rent

#115

Post by dragonwriter »

blurbleblurble wrote: post #35

This makes me think hard about universal basic income. If average incomes went up, how long would it take for those with monopolies on basic needs to raise the prices? Not long, I'm sure. Unless rentier capitalism is somehow cut out of the picture, if the government provided $10,000/yr, then $10,000/yr could very quickly become the new "poverty". If banks (via landlords' debts) are squeezing people now, whats stoppin…

> If average incomes went up,

Average after-tax income doesn't go up under any sane UBI scheme; it's redistributing income (ideally, primarily capital income—gains, rents, and otherwise).

> how long would it take for those with monopolies on basic needs to raise the prices?

Unregulated monopolies on basic needs are a problem that needs addressed either through regulating the monopolies or breaking then up, independent of UBI.

That said, redistribution will result in relative inflation of prices of goods disproportionately demanded by lower income segments, even in a competitive economy. The increase in nominal prices should usually be less than proportional to the increase in income, barring hard supply constraints that aren't addressed by the reduced demand for higher-end goods.

Re: A secret of many urban 20-somethings: Their parents help with the rent

#116

Post by sokoloff »

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #109
sokoloff wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boston area? Plenty of places where a two engineer family can buy within 30 mins. Belmont, Malden, Melrose, Somerville, Chelsea, Revere, Dorchester, West Roxbury, parts of Arlington and Cambridge all should have affordable (for two engineers) housing.

A Somerville double-decker these days can be sold for a million dollars, one of its constituent apartments for half that. Two engineers can afford a $500k mortgage?

Absolutely!

$200K down and $166K annual income and you can buy the whole $1MM property. $83K/pp income seems completely reasonable for two engineers (and crazy low for two SWEs!) in their 30s.

With a combined annual income of only $85K/yr and $100K down, you can buy a $500K property. No way are two engineers in 30s making less than that... (Two train engineers driving for Keolis make more than that.) Without a 20% down payment, you need a little more income, but it's still well within reach of normal professionals who decide they want to prioritize buying a property.

Re: A secret of many urban 20-somethings: Their parents help with the rent

#117

Post by sokoloff »

aczerepinski wrote: post #108
sokoloff wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Boston area? Plenty of places where a two engineer family can buy within 30 mins. Belmont, Malden, Melrose, Somerville, Chelsea, Revere, Dorchester, West Roxbury, parts of Arlington and Cambridge all should have affordable (for two engineers) housing.

Yeah I guess you're right about that. My wife works far west of Boston, so I've only looked at the towns in between.

Yeah, the Rt 9 corridor doesn't have much cheap inside of 30 minutes of Boston downtown (esp since 30 mins isn't that far with rush hour traffic)

Re: A secret of many urban 20-somethings: Their parents help with the rent

#118

Post by ClassyJacket »

akita-ken wrote: post #107
qstyk wrote: post #76

If you were taking a woman on a date to a place where women are objectified, I'd be open to the possibility that money isn't your only obstacle.

Get off your moral high horse, you can't possibly know the full circumstances of the OP to make such assumptions. This SJW mentality has to stop.

It's funny because it was actually a group of girls that decided to go to the strip club and then just invited me at the last second because I was there.

I didn't touch the stripper, but the girls did. I didn't pay to have her rub her boobs in my face, but the girls did.

I'm not saying something can't be sexist if a girl does it, but I am pretty sure it blows that commenter's assumptions out of the water. I actually hadn't yet said that they were female strippers at that point either.

Personally I don't like the idea of assuming a stripper doesn't like their job or is being taken advantage of or objectified. I don't see why it's any of our business to tell them how to feel about their job or make assumptions.

Re: A secret of many urban 20-somethings: Their parents help with the rent

#119

Post by dllthomas »

dragonwriter wrote: post #115
blurbleblurble wrote: post #35

This makes me think hard about universal basic income. If average incomes went up, how long would it take for those with monopolies on basic needs to raise the prices? Not long, I'm sure. Unless rentier capitalism is somehow cut out of the picture, if the government provided $10,000/yr, then $10,000/yr could very quickly become the new "poverty". If banks (via landlords' debts) are squeezing people now, whats stoppin…

> If average incomes went up, Average after-tax income doesn't go up under any sane UBI scheme; it's redistributing income (ideally, primarily capital income—gains, rents, and otherwise). > how long would it take for those with monopolies on basic needs to raise the prices? Unregulated monopolies on basic needs are a problem that needs addressed either through regulating the monopolies or breaking then up, independen…

> Average after-tax income doesn't go up under any sane UBI scheme

Median probably would. Mean probably breaks even, yeah, at least first-order.

Re: A secret of many urban 20-somethings: Their parents help with the rent

#120

Post by sokoloff »

blurbleblurble wrote: post #112
sokoloff wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. If I can find some inside track that UBI is coming, I'll be buying a lot of low-end rental property, hopefully before it runs up.

It's like a game of Monopoly where everyone gets more money, including the people who already have Board Walk and Park Place, etc. #WWJD? Flip the board over. Jubilee.

UBI doesn't have that property at all. UBI consciously, intentionally, and overtly transfers money from the net taxpayers to the net benefit receivers. (I support it, but it's absolutely an income transfer mechanism from the higher income to the lower income populations.)

The fact that the "rich" also receive $650/mo in UBI is completely swamped by the fact that they'll pay $30K/month or more in income tax to fund the program.

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