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Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

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Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#111

Post by pjmlp »

klibertp wrote: post #106
pjmlp wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love sandboxes, on Windows, Mac OS X, Android, iOS ,Chrome OS X. One day my GNU/Linux installs will also only run sandboxed applications. I guess you don't use either an iOS or Android device, because you cannot do regular UNIX IPC on them.

> I guess you don't use I think he was talking about programming the apps, not just using them. From the looks of it (after reading the comments here and nothing more, so excuse me if I'm completely wrong) it may be a real inconvenience from the dev perspective: I can somehow understand the "no 127.0.0.1 communication" policy, but I expect to communicate with a spawned process via stdin/stdout pipes.

You have the same issue in other sandbox models.

Old style IPC leads to information leaks and is another attack vector.

You cannot do that on Android for example, Google explicitly removed UNIX V IPC from their Linux fork. You are expected to use TCP/IP or Android RPCs, assuming the app has android.permission.INTERNET permission.

Also using fork/exec() on Android isn't a good idea, http://stackoverflow.com/questions/16179062/using-exec-with-...

Which I doubt that would still work on Android 7 by the way.

On iDevices, the same applies.

https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/Se...

So people are complaining about Microsoft adopting what is already best practices on the other desktop/mobile sandbox models.

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#112

Post by whodknee »

bitwize wrote: post #70

This is not a cuddly new Microsoft. First comes the embrace (look at all this stuff on our github!), then comes the extend (run your Linux stack on Windows and never have to give up Visual Studio!), I'm sure you know what comes next. Hint: PC manufacturers no longer have to give you the option to disable Secure Boot.

>PC manufacturers no longer have to give you the option to disable Secure Boot.

Then don't buy from those people. Simple

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#113

Post by crudbug »

rodionos wrote: post #108
crudbug wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am using a time-series db where each metric measurement requires some static context information to be included, e.g. Event 1 happened in Device A at Node B, Location C. These static entities (A, B, C) are perfect for graph vertices. But, when I am persisting the graph on disk - I store all the data statically, No links just columns - the static entities become dimensional data. Is there a better way to this ? Idea…

Not specific to GraphEngine, but you could store all meta-data about the device separate from the time-series itself. The composite metric name (key?) would then include the measurement name and the entity name (device name in this case).

That is one possible solution. But, for queries we will need some kind of JOIN at runtime.

I do store the entity data separately in a transactional row store.

For analytical queries, we use a column store. For this, I have to include the entity data (context) for each fired event.

The whole Compute & Storage semantics are different.

If only, we had a persistent data-aware compute & storage graph engine that supported transactional & analytical workloads.

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#114

Post by Analemma_ »

yulaow wrote: post #54
pcnix wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was surprised at how well it was implemented. It's a very comprehensive system, and their roadmap for the future is promising too.

Can I ask you where I can find their roadmap about it? Very interested recently

I don't know if there's a single document somewhere with an explicit roadmap. Their GitHub page (https://github.com/Microsoft/BashOnWindows) includes links to multiple sources that could collectively be considered a sort of roadmap, including the Issue tracker, UserVoice page, team blog, and discussion forums. I've also asked the devs questions on Twitter a couple times (like @richturn_ms) and usually gotten fast responses.

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#115

Post by PaulHoule »

bluejekyll wrote: post #5

At this rate, are we going to see Windows open-sourced? MS is on a roll. My bias since 1996 is being eroded with each OSS release they have, and multi-platform targeted support. I started using VSCode regularly as my main Rust IDE, and I feel dirty for liking it. It's seemless across macOS and Linux.

It has nothing to do with Linux vs. Windows.

It does have something to do with SQL Server vs the world -- and that is life as usual at Microsoft.

Microsoft had a big leadership role in XML standardization at the W3C but has had little to do with RDF. (ex. Oracle contains a forward-chaining triple store optimized for geospatial work, SQL Server does not.)

The Microsoft SQL server team would naturally oppose any effort to make a competing database. They've tried to deep six the JET engine that powers Microsoft Access because (i) people want access, and (ii) Microsoft SQL server Express/Compact/whatever is not an effective replacement.

Thus, there is not a lot of room under Microsoft's umbrella for a competitive project, but "yet another open source graph database" is not seen as a threat.

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#116

Post by akiselev »

manigandham wrote: post #82
olyjohn wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like they're doing it out of the goodness of their heart. They don't have a choice, they were becoming irrelevant, and now they're playing catch up to try to bring back all the devs to their platform.

MS was definitely not becoming irrelevant. The vast majority of enterprise software is written in .NET and the MS stack runs millions of businesses. They are evolving the framework to be faster and cross-platform based on external pressures but in the last few years they have managed to overtake several of the other language/framework options to again be one of the top choices for new projects. They aren't catching u…

> The vast majority of enterprise software is written in .NET and the MS stack runs millions of businesses.

What data are you basing this statement on? I'm genuinely curious because the vast majority of indicators I've seen clearly show that Java is by far the #1 enterprise language. Greenfield projects are probably far more likely to choose .Net but for now, there is a hell of a lot more important legacy Java code that will never be practical to port.

I believe that C#/F# are the future of managed enterprise languages (Roslyn, CoreCLR/FX, and quite soon RyuJIT are far superior to Java equivalents, imo) but I highly doubt their adoption is anywhere near Java.

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#117

Post by sctb »

anon987 wrote: post #94

How the hell does this story have so many upvotes? HN really needs to do something about Microsoft's vote manipulation - it's becoming quite blatant at this point.

Please don't post baseless accusations of shillage. See more here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13610097.

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#118

Post by ChicagoDave »

jdmichal wrote: post #92
Someone1234 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I love Windows but I seriously will not touch UWP until they loosen up the sandbox restrictions so that I can do regular IPC with a win32 desktop app. The whole reason for the UWP sandboxing is to make it so that users can confidently install UWP applications with some assurances that it isn't spyware/malware/blackmailware that will take over their PC or steal their personal information. UWP is Microsoft's answer t…

Honestly, this particular complaint reminds me a lot of UAC. After decades of people complaining that Windows account security was too lax, they implement the graphical popup equivalent of `sudo`. Then proceed to get skewered in public opinion for having done it. Yes, proper security means you will be inconvenienced. In the same way that you would be inconvenienced if your bank called you to confirm that $10000 wire…

To be fair, MS didn't really communicate clearly to their downstream vendors that the OS was getting "locked down" and they didn't wait long enough for the driver manufacturers to catch up to the new standards.

That said, it was ironic that people complained about security in a Windows release.

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#119

Post by jessedhillon »

PaulHoule wrote: post #115
bluejekyll wrote: post #5

At this rate, are we going to see Windows open-sourced? MS is on a roll. My bias since 1996 is being eroded with each OSS release they have, and multi-platform targeted support. I started using VSCode regularly as my main Rust IDE, and I feel dirty for liking it. It's seemless across macOS and Linux.

It has nothing to do with Linux vs. Windows. It does have something to do with SQL Server vs the world -- and that is life as usual at Microsoft. Microsoft had a big leadership role in XML standardization at the W3C but has had little to do with RDF. (ex. Oracle contains a forward-chaining triple store optimized for geospatial work, SQL Server does not.) The Microsoft SQL server team would naturally oppose any effort…

Is this based on experience or reporting from within Microsoft, or is this kremlinology?

Re: Microsoft open-sources Graph Engine

#120

Post by Someone1234 »

beagle3 wrote: post #97
jdmichal wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, this particular complaint reminds me a lot of UAC. After decades of people complaining that Windows account security was too lax, they implement the graphical popup equivalent of `sudo`. Then proceed to get skewered in public opinion for having done it. Yes, proper security means you will be inconvenienced. In the same way that you would be inconvenienced if your bank called you to confirm that $10000 wire…

If only. sudo, as configured out-of-the-box on Ubuntu, gets out of your way and lets you work (Except if you haven't properly authenticated in the last 15 minutes); polkit is similarly out-of-your-way. Sudo is also (relatively) easy to configure: "this command line can be run under sudo by anybody", "this command must not be run under sudo even if they know their password", etc. UAC is always-in-your-face about every…

While what you say was true about Vista, in Windows 7, 8, 8.1, and 10 UAC prompts are suppressed when they're the direct result of user interactions within the OS itself. Each OS reduced the number of UAC prompts a user experiences.
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