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A Genetic Fix to Put the Taste Back in Tomatoes

nytimes.com

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Re: A Genetic Fix to Put the Taste Back in Tomatoes

#111

Post by gozur88 »

roel_v wrote: post #86
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #10

There's a similar problem with popcorn. Showing my age card here, but back in the 1970's popcorn actually tasted like corn , which seems to be a difficult concept to explain to anyone under 40. It all went south around the same time that microwave popcorn became popular. People always ask if I don't like tomatoes when I eat around them in salads or remove from burgers. Nope, I love tomatoes, that's why I don't eat fl…

I don't have the reference at hand, but I read a paper a few months ago that explained this. You prefer flavors you grew up with. Flavors change, so as you get older, you think flavors get worse. Except they don't, the double blind testing showed age cohort related preference clustering, but no proof for 'everything was better in the old days'. This study was for strawberries but I don't see why it would be different…

>Flavors change, so as you get older, you think flavors get worse.

Yeah, except that it's more like flavors didn't change so much as disappear.

Re: A Genetic Fix to Put the Taste Back in Tomatoes

#112

Post by tornadoboy55 »

Baeocystin wrote: post #105
tornadoboy55 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pro tip: never eat canned goods. The coating inside of them is loaded with endocrine disruptors. Edit: nice to see downvotes without any discourse. Keep it up HN! https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/endocrine/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2726844/

Those are good links, and you shouldn't be downvoted. That being said, it's a little more complex than that. From http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/29/health/canned-foods-bpa-risk/ : >Now, a study published in the journal Environmental Research on Wednesday not only reveals that consuming canned foods can expose our bodies to BPA, it pinpoints the worst offenders. The study suggests that canned soups and pasta can expose co…

For me personally I still wouldn't risk it with meat or fish. What if the brand you actually eat wasn't researched and actually does contain BPA (or a similarly unhealthy replacement) and thus you ingest it? Better safe then sorry..

Besides that, its pretty easy for me buy either fresh or glass-stored food at the supermarket, both of which are safe (but that easy access could be just because I live in Europe and its more usual to cook at home here).

Re: A Genetic Fix to Put the Taste Back in Tomatoes

#113

Post by pluma »

roel_v wrote: post #86
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #10

There's a similar problem with popcorn. Showing my age card here, but back in the 1970's popcorn actually tasted like corn , which seems to be a difficult concept to explain to anyone under 40. It all went south around the same time that microwave popcorn became popular. People always ask if I don't like tomatoes when I eat around them in salads or remove from burgers. Nope, I love tomatoes, that's why I don't eat fl…

I don't have the reference at hand, but I read a paper a few months ago that explained this. You prefer flavors you grew up with. Flavors change, so as you get older, you think flavors get worse. Except they don't, the double blind testing showed age cohort related preference clustering, but no proof for 'everything was better in the old days'. This study was for strawberries but I don't see why it would be different…

Meanwhile I'm 31 and have semi-recently had both strawberries with a distinct strawberry flavour and strawberries that tasted like edible water. Ditto for tomatoes and even watermelons.

It's not that the flavour got worse, it's that a lot of fruits and vegetables were selected for other factors than what they taste like. They don't taste different, they just don't taste much like anything.

I'm not saying this confirms that "everything was better in the old days" but flavour differences are real and being picky about strawberries or tomatoes isn't just about preferring what you grew up with. The watery breeds aren't so widespread because younger people prefer them, they're widespread for economical reasons and younger people (allegedly) prefer them because they're more familiar with them.

Re: A Genetic Fix to Put the Taste Back in Tomatoes

#114

Post by radicality »

ooqr wrote: post #81
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #10

There's a similar problem with popcorn. Showing my age card here, but back in the 1970's popcorn actually tasted like corn , which seems to be a difficult concept to explain to anyone under 40. It all went south around the same time that microwave popcorn became popular. People always ask if I don't like tomatoes when I eat around them in salads or remove from burgers. Nope, I love tomatoes, that's why I don't eat fl…

I thought I disliked tomatoes as a kid, eating around them as you describe. Only when I discovered garden-grown cherry tomatoes did I flip the other way. So far the other way I'm surprised I didn't get sick eating so many of them. They're incredible.

My family has a countryside house with a small greenhouse. Whenever I visit over the summer when the tomatoes are getting ripe, I go to see it. On a sunny day, opening the doors hits me with such an incredible fragrant tomato aroma followed by a eating a fresh off-the-vine tomato, that buying any tomato in a supermarket now just ends in big disappointment with how flavourless it is.

Re: A Genetic Fix to Put the Taste Back in Tomatoes

#115

Post by pluma »

hexane360 wrote: post #100
Retric wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alternatively, younger people don't know what they are missing. As the article points out it's not a sudden drop it's a low change over time where A is almost as good as B and B is almost as good as C ... until it's cardboard. I have done this experiment with Apples and Oranges kids really prefer the full flavor options and they are not just preferring their childhood tastes as they are still kids.

Time to break open a seed vault and see who's right. We give young'uns the old stuff and see how they react. And then make a fortune if you're right, and make nothing if your parent comment is right.

I think you're missing the point: it's not that the flavour of the breeds has gotten words, it's that the breeds with the more distinct flavours have largely gone away.

When there are less than a handful varieties widely available anymore and the breeds that made it were picked based on practical concerns rather than taste, it's pretty obvious why someone who experienced the full range of flavours might consider today's offerings quite bland.

Case in point: there is a wide range of apple breeds with very different flavours that was used for various dishes traditionally. Trying to use the same one or two breeds that are still widely available for the same dishes leads to naturally very different (and arguably inferior as the recipes were specifically created with those breeds in minds) results regardless of whether the apple by itself would have been any tastier.

Re: A Genetic Fix to Put the Taste Back in Tomatoes

#116

Post by kbart »

roel_v wrote: post #86
Eric_WVGG wrote: post #10

There's a similar problem with popcorn. Showing my age card here, but back in the 1970's popcorn actually tasted like corn , which seems to be a difficult concept to explain to anyone under 40. It all went south around the same time that microwave popcorn became popular. People always ask if I don't like tomatoes when I eat around them in salads or remove from burgers. Nope, I love tomatoes, that's why I don't eat fl…

I don't have the reference at hand, but I read a paper a few months ago that explained this. You prefer flavors you grew up with. Flavors change, so as you get older, you think flavors get worse. Except they don't, the double blind testing showed age cohort related preference clustering, but no proof for 'everything was better in the old days'. This study was for strawberries but I don't see why it would be different…

While in principle I agree, I'm afraid that when it comes to supermarket goods, they are really tasteless and age has nothing to do here. Do a simple experiment: get generic strawberries from a supermarket and fresh ones from a garden. You would be amazed by the difference, it's like a totally different thing. Same goes for pretty much any fruit or vegetable.

Re: A Genetic Fix to Put the Taste Back in Tomatoes

#117

Post by ericdykstra »

Tomatoes and chickens and pretty much all American agriculture is bred to maximize profit at every step. This means eschewing things like healthfulness and tastiness in favor of volume of product, heartiness, and low production cost.

I highly recommend the book The Dorito Effect to anyone more interested in how the flavors of food have changed over time. Despite the fluffy name, it's a very well-researched and well-written book.

Re: A Genetic Fix to Put the Taste Back in Tomatoes

#118

Post by Baeocystin »

tornadoboy55 wrote: post #112
Baeocystin wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are good links, and you shouldn't be downvoted. That being said, it's a little more complex than that. From http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/29/health/canned-foods-bpa-risk/ : >Now, a study published in the journal Environmental Research on Wednesday not only reveals that consuming canned foods can expose our bodies to BPA, it pinpoints the worst offenders. The study suggests that canned soups and pasta can expose co…

For me personally I still wouldn't risk it with meat or fish. What if the brand you actually eat wasn't researched and actually does contain BPA (or a similarly unhealthy replacement) and thus you ingest it? Better safe then sorry.. Besides that, its pretty easy for me buy either fresh or glass-stored food at the supermarket, both of which are safe (but that easy access could be just because I live in Europe and its…

It's pretty easy here in California, as we have a ton of agriculture in-state.

There are several states where the fruit n' veg selection is pretty sparse in the winter, though.

//

There are several companies that make it a point to use BPA-free cans.

http://www.treehugger.com/green-food/7-companies-you-can-tru...

Wild Planet's tuna, in particular, is really, really good. If you like fish, you should give it a try, if you can find it.

Re: A Genetic Fix to Put the Taste Back in Tomatoes

#119

Post by kbart »

pbosko wrote: post #19

You should try importing tomatoes from Eastern Europe. They are still very tasty over here. :)

That's only because more people have summer houses there (it's a tradition in most/all Eastern Europe) and grow vegetables themselves, so it's easier to come by naturally grown ones. Buy generic tomatoes from a supermarket, and the they'll taste bland as everywhere.

Re: A Genetic Fix to Put the Taste Back in Tomatoes

#120

Post by Obi_Juan_Kenobi »

shmerl wrote: post #51

> I don’t want people to not eat a great-tasting tomato because they’re scared of it And we also don't want anyone to claim exclusive rights on producing such tomatoes, because some moron came up with the idea to patent genes.

Uh, plant patents are one of only a handful of patent varieties (in the US), and they exist specifically to cover new breeds. This is very much a patent-able breed, and much more easily enforced because it's a well characterized bit of law, whereas the 'gene patents' only got by on a technicality of requiring cDNA intermediates.
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