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What does it take to be a good programmer?

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Re: What does it take to be a good programmer?

#111

Post by YZF »

tomcam wrote: post #82
YZF wrote: post #77

Here's my take: - You need to think a certain way. You need to be able to see how to translate a problem into something a machine can execute. You need to be able to switch from the macro to the micro smoothly. - You need a certain level of proficiency with the tools you're using. Those can be programming languages/OSes/libraries/other software. - You need experience. Having seen different approaches to solving vario…

Algorithm knowledge too

For the most part I was including this under domain knowledge. You mostly are concerned with algorithms that apply to the domain you're working in.

Re: What does it take to be a good programmer?

#112

Post by tunesmith »

qwrusz wrote: post #105
tunesmith wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I graduated with a music degree and have been a professional programmer for twenty years... I have honestly never really seen programming as an art. Not in that sense. It's got some elements in common with different kinds of music, like how you choose to make it balanced and cohesive I guess, but to me it's kind of a pale shade of musical artistry. If you're performing, it requires you to tap into some sort of "being…

There are multiple definitions of "art". And debates on how to define and classify "art" have been around forever. Where art thou, bro?.. The post you replied to seems to be using "art" in the very common sense like the phrase "more art than science" uses it: it's an art in that it requires some type of successful human judgment and subjectivity applied to the needs of a skill. If a fancy calculator can't give an off…

Sure, I guess I meant to restrict my answer mostly to art-as-music.

Your first question: I think delving is more about artistry when it's personal, perhaps when one's own answer would be different than anyone else's. It's easy to be pedantic about this point, but it being personal is on the right track for me.

As for your second, I think part of the artistry of music is intrinsically related to the human element. In other words, let's say there were two recordings of performances or even an original composition. One was composed/performed by a person who felt it as they went, and another was composed/performed by a computer program. Even though it's the same sequence of pitches and waveforms, and impossible to tell the difference from listening alone, I still see the human one as different than the computer one. And if someone says, ah, surprise we told you it was human but it's actually computer-generated, I don't think that makes any kind of deep point, it's more just a dirty trick.

Anyway, the difference between those two recordings, that's the other level above that. I can better respect the human artistry that heard those sounds internally before manifesting them, than the computer program that generated them with AI and statistics.

Re: What does it take to be a good programmer?

#113

Post by keithnz »

mianos wrote: post #75
keithnz wrote: post #40

Well, I've been programming 30+ years..... I think one of the main things that makes a good programmer is someone who cares about the final product. Ironically this doesn't necessarily mean you have to be super good at writing code. I have seen people with what seems basic coding capability very methodically build some really nice software. This is because they are very focused on the "end" not the "means". You see t…

I have also been programming for over 30 years. I agree with you when the problem is small but all the rules change when it is bigger. If you are not up to it then it does not matter how much you care, and I do want people who care working on stuff, but at scale if it is not really good then the chances of failure are much higher.

even at scale, it's the same thing, even more so.

just remember I'm not saying caring vs coding skills.... I'm saying caring from when you are noob through to your entire growth as a programmer will define you as a good programmer, as opposed to an average one. An average one will also adopt coding skills and be... ok, average programmers will be inspired by good programmers and want to emulate them, "wow! that person did some awesome stuff with React!, lets do React! it is all things awesome!", but then you find while it's certainly got some things you appreciate, you end up with average React code because you adopted the the framework and not the mindset. My observation is good programmers start... and continue with a mindset. "It works" is never quite the goal, it needs this quality of being "good", good code, good design, good Ux, which we won't try and define, but more importantly is driven by caring about the outcome.

I guess that's more my reflection on my observations, what I have observed is having taken on people out of uni ( or crossed into programming from math / science / engineering ), and seen them develop over the years I have this sense of "good programmer" from the beginning, it's not once they reach some level of coding ability. They always do good things with their current capabilities. They then carry on and improve those capabilities and do even more good things.

Re: What does it take to be a good programmer?

#114

Post by keithnz »

sidcool wrote: post #83
keithnz wrote: post #40

Well, I've been programming 30+ years..... I think one of the main things that makes a good programmer is someone who cares about the final product. Ironically this doesn't necessarily mean you have to be super good at writing code. I have seen people with what seems basic coding capability very methodically build some really nice software. This is because they are very focused on the "end" not the "means". You see t…

Been programming for 10 years and it's distressing how inadequate and incompetent I sometimes feel. I like to rebuff it as Impostor's syndrome, but who knows, may be I am just bad and surviving because mediocrity is what the industry wants. On the other hand, the pleasure that a good piece of code in a beautiful software gives is something I can perhaps relate to an opiate high (as a metaphor, never tried honestly :)…

work environment can mess with your mindset to care. To the point of being told not to. you just need to achieve X, and move on, and you never get to make things in a way you care about them.... so you may decide personally to focus on the means, try different languages, learning new frameworks, techniques..... but never quite being in environment where you can build something you care about. Interviewing people you often hear peoples stories around this, it's a motivation to find a new job, or they end up with side projects / open source which they care about and start wishing they could do those full time. They just want a space where they can build things that matter to them.

Some places get it, some don't, some partially get it. One of the classic things I have seen is "managers" that say they want you to care but don't really care themselves.

Interestingly a number of years ago I went through a program called "Better by Design" which the NZ government sponsored for local businesses, see:- http://www.betterbydesign.org.nz/why-design-matters/ and a big part of the message about good design was really all about trying to make people care at every level of the company.

Re: What does it take to be a good programmer?

#115

Post by antfarm »

abc_lisper wrote: post #2

> I divide and conquer and get things done. I had the same insight after many years like the author - that every problem you do can be broken down into smaller problems, which can be worked independently and tested independently. Why it wasn't obvious to me early-on I have no idea. I guess I never developed the intuition to see the efficiency of the method. Did anyone else among you had the same experience?

That is only easy if the overall architecture has already been taken care of by someone else.

Re: What does it take to be a good programmer?

#116

Post by lightedman »

rumcajz wrote: post #89
lightedman wrote: post #80

I wish everyone were forced to program everything on a machine with the resources of a Pentium I-class processor and say 64MB RAM. Learn to conserve your resources, learn to eschew that which is not needed, and for crying out loud learn to not write bloated stuff. Even today, most programs I use on Windows 7 were written back in the days of Windows 95/98 and they still work faster than any current modern implementati…

Every programmer should be given ZX81 with 1kB of memory to start with.

And after that, the maximum hardware they should be allowed is what I mentioned. Unless you're crunching massive data sets, you don't need 64-bit (and most programs don't, excepting games and of course databases!)
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