Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy • Hacker News Board

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#111

Post by 9aa » Thu, Jan 12, 2017, 10:35 AM UTC

As a mentor at the very first Startup Weekend Gaza, I was very impressed both at the energy that young Gazans put into their ideas and their optimism that they can build a better, more peaceful world with technology. I mentored one young female entrepreneur who built an Uber-like platform for Gaza using SMS. We spent all of our time discussing the possibilities for market expansion to places where she wouldn't compete directly with Uber, and none of it discussing politics. She was very driven to take her idea to the next level and to travel abroad despite the concerns of her more conservative family.

While many of the entrepreneurs I spoke to were hesitant to voice their political opinions because of the climate in which they live, it was clear that they simply want peace and a chance to be creative with their ideas and lives just like young people everywhere. They did not create the political situation they are in but very much want to change it. They do not engage with the rhetoric of the victim or the aggressor -- which are two sides of one coin-- but simply were focused on the possibilities of expanding their horizons and making something that could advance humanity bit by bit.

I was also impressed by the number of women present, as others have mentioned, as it exceeded the percentages I had seen throughout the rest of the Arab World. That alone is a significant achievement. These women were very motivated to create a better life. And I felt nothing but gratitude and a desire for upward movement and transcendence of conflict from everyone we worked with.

I hope those reading this thread will consider focusing on the future and supporting this initiative to support a positive future in Gaza, with hope for peace.

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#112

Post by kirillkh » Thu, Jan 12, 2017, 12:47 PM UTC

random314 wrote: post #34

ars wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in the slightest. This kind of activity (economic activity) is probably the best way possible to deescalate the conflict. Israel has no interest in Gaza, they just want them to stop trying to attack, so if anything this program is for Israel, not against it. If you need evidence for that, then note that even during the worst conflicts Israel kept full communication (Cell and Internet) active in Gaza, which is opp…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza_flotilla_raid > The Gaza flotilla raid was a military operation by Israel against six civilian ships of the "Gaza Freedom Flotilla" on 31 May 2010 in international waters in the Mediterranean Sea. Nine activists were killed in the raid. The flotilla, organized by the Free Gaza Movement and the Turkish Foundation for Human Rights and Freedoms and Humanitarian Relief (İHH), was carryi…

Not sure what you're getting at, but here are the facts:

1) Background: Israel legitimately blockades Gaza due to acts of war by the local government (also known as the terrorist organization Hamas).

2) The Gaza flotilla was an attempt to breach the blockade by intruding into the zone controlled by Israeli naval forces in the area.

3) The Israeli forces intercepted the flotilla and boarded it; no weapons were used until provoked.

4) Immediately after boarding it, they were physically assaulted and returned fire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaiMjAULWn0

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#113

Post by jbermudez5 » Thu, Jan 12, 2017, 2:08 PM UTC

bogomipz wrote: post #47

jbermudez5 wrote: post #46

Having volunteered with Gaza Sky Geeks (GSG) and been on the ground all I can say is that this is a big positive in the region and for the people living in Gaza. You would not believe how welcoming and hard working Palestinians are. There is a generalization because of the conflict but at the end of the day these are people like you and me trying to achieve their goals in a positive way. There is a political situatio…

Good on you for donating your time like that. How did you get involved with GSG? How long will you be there for? Cheers.

Came across a post on social media and applied to help out as a mentor. There was an interview processes and then some paperwork for entry permits.

I spent one week in Gaza and another week between Ramallah and parts of Israel.

After the time there I still have contact with the friends I made there and try to contribute with any initiative they put together.

It also pushed me to look for local initiatives here in the US .

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#114

Post by jbermudez5 » Thu, Jan 12, 2017, 2:15 PM UTC

davidf18 wrote: post #52

I've been to Israel many times including during the time of the first Gaza conflict (Cast Lead). There were elections in 2006 and Hamas was elected over Fatah. Hamas does not recognize Israel and is declared a terrorist state by the US, EU as well as Israel. There were supposed to be elections in 2010 but Hamas will not allow them. Hamas has spent large sums of money shooting missiles into Israel and using concrete m…

David, the founders and team members that are impacted by GSG are very young, a new generation that have not been part in the decades of conflict.

As another volunteer mentioned in the thread, GSG is helping a younger generation look at the future with a different outlook, that is a big reason I love the program so much, it has a real impact on Gaza and a new generation of people.

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#115

Post by justin66 » Thu, Jan 12, 2017, 3:02 PM UTC

berntb wrote: post #108

justin66 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Palestinian terrorists are declared martyrs, mural paintings are done, their relatives get a pension from PLO -- while caught Israeli murderers are sent to jail..? Judging from the public reaction in Israel to the manslaughter conviction of Elor Azaria (polling suggests something like 67% want him pardoned), some segment of the Israeli public isn't above sticking up for its murderers.

You are not contradicting my point. He is still going to jail. The sympathy for due process of terrorists will wear thin in most democracies. Afaik, most countries with continuous terror problems throw out the law book. This is a quite logical result, since the point of terror is to get a fear and horror reaction from the civilian population to influence them. Scared voters make politicians hysterical, so everything…

> You are not contradicting my point. He is still going to jail.

Israel undeniably has a better and more principled legal system than whatever the Palestinians have under the occupation. It's admirable that they found this guy guilty in the face of public opinion.

Insofar as your "mural paintings" statement spoke to the cultural differences, I think it's important (and unbelievably sad) to note that the difference when it comes to acceptance of bloody murder is just a matter of degree. All the parties involved have been degraded by this conflict.

Another poster wrote that this kind of argument takes away from the discussion of the good that's being done there, and I believe he's right, so... :)

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#116

Post by berntb » Thu, Jan 12, 2017, 3:40 PM UTC

justin66 wrote: post #115

berntb wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are not contradicting my point. He is still going to jail. The sympathy for due process of terrorists will wear thin in most democracies. Afaik, most countries with continuous terror problems throw out the law book. This is a quite logical result, since the point of terror is to get a fear and horror reaction from the civilian population to influence them. Scared voters make politicians hysterical, so everything…

> You are not contradicting my point. He is still going to jail. Israel undeniably has a better and more principled legal system than whatever the Palestinians have under the occupation. It's admirable that they found this guy guilty in the face of public opinion. Insofar as your "mural paintings" statement spoke to the cultural differences, I think it's important (and unbelievably sad) to note that the difference wh…

"just a matter of degree"? OK, let's look at it then:

Side A is officially antisemitic in their founding document (Hamas) and TV programs (even for children!); they literally took inspirations from the 3rd Reich. They condone murders of civilians (even children) and pay pensions to the family of killed murderers. They have expelled all members of side B. They persecute members of side B everywhere on the planet where both groups live in the same society.

Side B have racism from individuals, which is officially condemned by a democratically elected government. They throw murderers of civilians in jail. 20% (?) of the population in side B are really part of side A, with no expulsions (except once in a bad civil war, when both sides did it, almost 70 years ago).

And so on, there are lots of examples.

You can dismiss this as "just a matter of degree". But then note that there is also "just a matter of degree" in Celsius between Antarctica and Hawaii.

When do "double standards for different sides" go over the limit to the definition of stronger terms?

(Edit: If you're going to argue that persecution and hatred of Jews are excusable because of X, note that more Jews were expelled from the Muslim world than Palestinians that fled from the Nakba. And multiple times more land was stolen from them than the total area of Israel.)

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#117

Post by justin66 » Thu, Jan 12, 2017, 5:14 PM UTC

berntb wrote: post #116

justin66 wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are not contradicting my point. He is still going to jail. Israel undeniably has a better and more principled legal system than whatever the Palestinians have under the occupation. It's admirable that they found this guy guilty in the face of public opinion. Insofar as your "mural paintings" statement spoke to the cultural differences, I think it's important (and unbelievably sad) to note that the difference wh…

"just a matter of degree"? OK, let's look at it then: Side A is officially antisemitic in their founding document (Hamas) and TV programs (even for children!); they literally took inspirations from the 3rd Reich. They condone murders of civilians (even children) and pay pensions to the family of killed murderers. They have expelled all members of side B. They persecute members of side B everywhere on the planet where…

> If you're going to argue that persecution and hatred of Jews are excusable because of X

If it seemed to you that anything I wrote intended to argue that persecution and hatred of anyone is "excusable because of X", this was rather a waste of time.

Which is of course a surprise, since discussion of the Palestinian conflict online is ordinarily so productive...

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#118

Post by YZF » Thu, Jan 12, 2017, 6:23 PM UTC

RockyMcNuts wrote: post #91

YZF wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gaza has chosen a confrontational attitude with their neighbors Egypt and Israel. When Israel withdrew from Gaza they proceeded to promptly demolish the greenhouses that Israel left (and I believed donors actually purchased for them). Next was lynching their fellow Palestinians who happened to support Fatah rather than Hamas. Tunneling under the borders. Rocket attacks ... For sure there are two sides to the story an…

picture I have of greenhouses (if wrong please correct and provide links) - at time of withdrawal settlers were required to depart - settlers wanted more money to leave greenhouses behind - didn't get it from Israeli government, started demolishing - Western philanthropists purchased remaining greenhouses and donated - When Israelis withdrew, some greenhouses were looted - some remained in operation, until inability…

The headline of that NBC story is: "Palestinians looted dozens of greenhouses on Tuesday, walking off with irrigation hoses, water pumps and plastic sheeting in a blow to fledgling efforts to reconstruct the Gaza Strip. ".

Which is not the same as "some greenhouses were looted". My image and recollection is more like everything got looted. I mean if only very little were looted it wouldn't be a "blow to efforts"?

Also see this story about the guy who paid for most it: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/18/nyregion/how-old-friends-o...

I'm sure those greenhouses could have been used for export or for local consumption if the Palestinians plotted a different course after Israel withdrew. There wouldn't be a blockage on Gaza either. The whole point wrt/ to Gaza is that once Israel left their next actions were looting of greenhouses (all or some, doesn't matter) followed by an endless stream of attacks against Israel (and the excuses don't really matter either, "they started" isn't a good enough reason for shelling Sderot e.g. unless you're a 3 year old).

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#119

Post by YZF » Thu, Jan 12, 2017, 6:55 PM UTC

Udik wrote: post #102

YZF wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it doesn't. The linked article which is not a court ruling, it's a report from the "Office of the Prosecutor", says: "While Israel maintains that it is no longer occupying Gaza, the prevalent view within the international community is that Israel remains an occupying power under international law, based on the scope and degree of control that it has retained over the territory of Gaza following the 2005 disengagem…

(from Wikipedia, Gaza Strip, military occupation) In his statement on the 2008–2009 Israel–Gaza conflict, Richard Falk, United Nations Special Rapporteur wrote that international humanitarian law applied to Israel "in regard to the obligations of an Occupying Power and in the requirements of the laws of war."[41] Amnesty International, the World Health Organization, Oxfam, the International Committee of the Red Cross…

My point was not to debate the legal status of Gaza in international law. I'm sure there are various opinions and various agendas. My point was the statement made in the comment was false and the ICC has not ruled on this topic and I didn't want that false statement to stand and then possibly be repeated.

The situation on the ground is clear. The Palestinians (Hamas) control the internal area of Gaza. Israel is imposing a naval blockade. Israel controls the Israeli side of the Gaza-Israeli border and restricts traffic of people and goods. Egypt controls (for the most part) the Egyptian side of the Gaza/Egypt border and restricts traffic of people and goods.

For humanitarian and I guess legal reasons Israel provides some services and goods to Gaza, unlike what we've seen in Syria where a total siege is routinely used in warfare. This article itself is evidence that Israel does not maintain absolute control over the lives of the internal population of Gaza.

I think that anyone looking at the facts of the matter should be able to see that once Israel withdrew from Gaza the Palestinians had enough control over their own destiny. They certainly had enough control to build thousands of rockets and shell Israel. Or is the claim that Israel shelled itself?

I can also see why the exact legal situation is complex. Gaza used to be under Egyptian control before 1967. It's not recognized as a state by any country. Israel withdrew unilaterally without any agreement covering the transition.

Re: Marc Benioff joins Valley notables backing Gaza’s first coding academy

#120

Post by berntb » Thu, Jan 12, 2017, 8:02 PM UTC

justin66 wrote: post #117

berntb wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"just a matter of degree"? OK, let's look at it then: Side A is officially antisemitic in their founding document (Hamas) and TV programs (even for children!); they literally took inspirations from the 3rd Reich. They condone murders of civilians (even children) and pay pensions to the family of killed murderers. They have expelled all members of side B. They persecute members of side B everywhere on the planet where…

> If you're going to argue that persecution and hatred of Jews are excusable because of X If it seemed to you that anything I wrote intended to argue that persecution and hatred of anyone is "excusable because of X", this was rather a waste of time. Which is of course a surprise, since discussion of the Palestinian conflict online is ordinarily so productive...

That was just answering a common bad argument in advance.

I wrote it INSIDE "()", AS AN EDIT. since that was the only thing you could comment on, sad...

EDIT: I used a ":-)" three comments ago as a mark of irony. Well, justin66 have no serious answer, so I end it here.

Edit 2: Justin66 seems to downvote my comments in this old discussion now, with multiple accounts... 15+ downvotes on old and new comments in 20 minutes. That is what happens when people lack both a serious argument and maturity. (Easy to find for HN mods..)

Edit 3: detaro -- The karma is irrelevant. And I should be equally ashamed as justin66 for needling whai I hope is a teenager when he have dearly held wrong opinions. Enough.