Actually the headline for this should be "Amazon PR team spins disturbing surveillance capabilities via Echo to make it seem like they are fighting for privacy"
Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings
111–120 of 190 posts
Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
Same logic used in the Salem witch trials. You ever wonder why The Right to Be Silent is the first right mentioned in Miranda? Our entire criminal justice system is rooted is this concept. You have to be proven guilty and the state has to provide probable cause to search or seize. Eric Schmidt is as biased on this subject as you can get, he profits from our data.
The full context of that Schmidt quote was that he was warning people that whatever they do, the government has legal (or as it turned out, extra-legal) ways to find out. "the reality is that search engines, including Google, do retain this information for some time. And [...] we’re all subject, in the US, to the Patriot Act, and it is possible that that information could be made available to the authorities." That s…
Precisely. If you're going to take up illegal activity, maybe don't search "How to do illegal activity" on Google the week before you do an illegal activity.
There are, to be certain, concerns about ubiquitous data being used in fishing expeditions, but a dead body in a hot-tub on a person's property is hardly "fishing expedition" territory.
Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings
#113This is really hard to support the headline from the story.
The artical says Amazon twice declined to hand over Echo data... I'm presuming because the police didn't have a warrant. The article says Amazon has been handed over a warrant (now?)... so... Amazon will or will not refuse to hand over the data now with warrant in hand???
Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
Those patterns would be easily detected in the dataset. I tried logging my electricity use. You can easily see what time I wake up each day, when I get home, whether I watch TV or not, whether I cook using the microwave or the hob. It doesn't show up on my graph, but I'd bet from the data you can see exactly when I go to bed, since I plug in my phone (+1W) and switch off the last light (-5W). Within all this, the fri…
> Those patterns would be easily detected in the dataset You left off the implied "unless the intent of those systems is to create the appearance of occupancy". You know that a pattern associated with waking up happened. You don't know if I'm home or not. Now add in the case which happens to me sometimes where my morning ritual automation kicks in because my phone is home (but I'm not).
If I recall correctly, this argument has been successfully applied, from a legal standpoint, in the context of traffic from IP addresses on shared resources not mapping to individual user behavior (and, relatedly, in the context of a vehicle being photographed in violation of the law not proving that the vehicle's owner was driving the vehicle at the time the law was violated).
I imagine it'd be a harder argument to make, before a jury in a criminal trial, that the dataset showed the house was occupied because the occupant had rigged beforehand an elaborate system of intentional resource wastage to fake occupancy in the way that would fuzz a police investigation, as opposed to the much simpler explanation "the suspect was home." Burden of proof might be high.
Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is the exact thing we have to fight against because it leads to class based systems. Those who use cloud computing are innocent and those who don't are presumably hiding something. This is the why we have constitutional rights, to avoid such broad generalizations. Everyone has the right to privacy, regardless of what utilities or Hobbies they have.
Everyone has a right to prevention of unreasonable search and seizure. It's still up in the air whether going to a third-party to whom you've voluntarily given a bunch of information about yourself and asking that third-party to render that information is "unreasonable." It's pretty simple to make a case that it isn't. To wit: there's plenty of legal precedent for compelling a witness to testify against someone; are…
Everyone has a right to bear arms. turkey used that right, with a single gun and a single bullet, to end a war that billions of dollars of US resources couldn't. Russia backed away, and putin cried.
If ANYONE attempts an unreasonable search or seizure: KILL THEM WITH YOUR GUN. the founding fathers EXPECT you to. of course, this is the other side of the same coin... "if you're doing something that someone might kill you over, perhaps you shouldn't be doing it"... as long as we keep killing perpetrators, we eventually won't have to.
you are all pussies. you have done this to yourselves. you're completely pathetic.
you're all idiots.
Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
> lest we end up with putting GPS trackers and video recording devices on each and every person. ....phones?
That's at least voluntary. For now...
As long as it's voluntary, it's fine. We should keep educating people about the risks as long as we don't curtail what people can do with the technology voluntarily.
Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings
#117More importantly, the headline should read: "Police use high time resolution data from modern water meter against man charged with murder." Basically this Abstruse Goose comic, http://abstrusegoose.com/553 , about the dangers of utility data logging have come true. The greater the time resolution of such things the more can be inferred. Such high resolution is completely uneeded and complex in order to just charge fo…
thats why i didnt want them to install the 'smart' meters for electricity. i told them I didnt want it, but they said they would shut off my electricity unless i complied.
You didn't want them installed because you were concerned they might rat you out when you murdered someone? ;)
Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
Same logic used in the Salem witch trials. You ever wonder why The Right to Be Silent is the first right mentioned in Miranda? Our entire criminal justice system is rooted is this concept. You have to be proven guilty and the state has to provide probable cause to search or seize. Eric Schmidt is as biased on this subject as you can get, he profits from our data.
> Eric Schmidt is as biased on this subject as you can get, he profits from our data. This. Eric Schmidt should release its own full dataset to show us that he thinks this is true. Unless he is doing things he should not be doing in the first place ?
If Eric Schmidt is ever suspected of murder, I would expect his full dataset to be called for.
Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings
#119When Eric Schmidt said "If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place," this is pretty much what he was talking about. We live in a society where passive, ubiquitous, voluntarily-accepted monitoring is becoming the norm because of the vast convenience it affords the users. The flip-side of that coin is of course breaks in your regular pattern of behavior…
When Eric Schmidt said "If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place," this is pretty much what he was talking about.
Pretty sure he regrets saying that in public.
But yeah, as I said in the previous story about this case, I've given up a lot of privacy in the past 10 years for convenience. I'm aware of the ramifications though. Many people just aren't thinking about the consequences.
Re: Amazon refuses to let police access US murder suspect’s Echo recordings
#120Am I right in thinking that this means that all comms between the Echo device and AWS are end-to-end encrypted? Big plus for the devices, if so.
While technically an accurate description, I generally don't think of encryption that terminates at a service provider as "end to end". I usually think of end to end encryption in the sense of messaging, where it is encrypted when one human sends it and is decrypted when another human opens it.
By that definition, encryption for a cloud-based home automation system is impossible, right?
"Here's the command from the Echo Dot." "Great, what should I do?" "Can't tell you; it's encrypted."