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Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#111

Post by pietroalbini »

st3fan wrote: post #105
planetjones wrote: post #85

Why can't someone take Apple to court and argue that developers should be able to build native web browser apps without relying on the Web View component? We have st3fan saying "Firefox Focus" is not ideal because he's had to use the older and slower WKWebView to implement it. Isn't this similar to Microsoft when they were forced to allow a choice of browser, or do Apple get away with it because they allow alternativ…

For the record, I am more than happy to use Apple's web components. WebKit is great. They just need to open the APIs more. Like WebKit on macOS. Then we can actually build competing browsers and do more innovative things. The WebKit team is great. Look at all the web standards being worked on. Look at the ES6 progress. They are pushing the state of the web forward on iOS. Now put some of that same energy in WKWebView…

But why should third party developers forced to use the engine Apple provides, instead of trying to innovate?

The whole point of having different browsers is to have competition (which means better performance/new features), but currently in the iOS world there is Safari and multiple reskinned Safaris.

Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#112

Post by jeromegv »

pietroalbini wrote: post #111
st3fan wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the record, I am more than happy to use Apple's web components. WebKit is great. They just need to open the APIs more. Like WebKit on macOS. Then we can actually build competing browsers and do more innovative things. The WebKit team is great. Look at all the web standards being worked on. Look at the ES6 progress. They are pushing the state of the web forward on iOS. Now put some of that same energy in WKWebView…

But why should third party developers forced to use the engine Apple provides, instead of trying to innovate? The whole point of having different browsers is to have competition (which means better performance/new features), but currently in the iOS world there is Safari and multiple reskinned Safaris.

Because of security, browsers are a huge vector of attack.

Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#113

Post by zapu »

st3fan wrote: post #54
lmedinas wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why having a separate application with these features instead of adding them to Firefox for iOS ? Is it planned to have content blockers support in Firefox for iOS ?

It is complicated. Here is the story of two WebView implementations in iOS: Firefox is based on the WKWebView. Modern and Fast, but has a very poor (thin) API. It has zero options for interacting with the network stack, which is a requirement for content blocking. Bugs have been open since iOS 8, Apple does not seem to be interested or does not have the resources to surface more API. All the APIs are in WKWebView, ju…

Is either able to use JIT for JavaScript engine or is it only enabled for Apple's "blessed-process" iOS Safari?

Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#114

Post by st3fan »

pietroalbini wrote: post #111
st3fan wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For the record, I am more than happy to use Apple's web components. WebKit is great. They just need to open the APIs more. Like WebKit on macOS. Then we can actually build competing browsers and do more innovative things. The WebKit team is great. Look at all the web standards being worked on. Look at the ES6 progress. They are pushing the state of the web forward on iOS. Now put some of that same energy in WKWebView…

But why should third party developers forced to use the engine Apple provides, instead of trying to innovate? The whole point of having different browsers is to have competition (which means better performance/new features), but currently in the iOS world there is Safari and multiple reskinned Safaris.

Stop talking about 'reskinned safari' please. This is not how it works. It is not what those alternative browsers currently are. You make it sound like we just change the color of the bezel. There are huge amounts of code around the WKWebView, which is the only thing common between browsers.

Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#115

Post by diminish »

mikeash wrote: post #101
izacus wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmm, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't monopoly law (at least in EU) dependant on the companies market power (e.g. the ability to sway market / damage consumer rights), not market share?

I imagine so, but it's hard to be in a position like that when you have less than 20% of the market.

But Apple had 90% of profits, isnt that a better metric of monopoly?

Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#117

Post by fiatjaf »

planetjones wrote: post #85

Why can't someone take Apple to court and argue that developers should be able to build native web browser apps without relying on the Web View component? We have st3fan saying "Firefox Focus" is not ideal because he's had to use the older and slower WKWebView to implement it. Isn't this similar to Microsoft when they were forced to allow a choice of browser, or do Apple get away with it because they allow alternativ…

Because that would be unfair.

Apple should be able to sell iPhones the way they want.

Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#118

Post by grzm »

diminish wrote: post #115
mikeash wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine so, but it's hard to be in a position like that when you have less than 20% of the market.

But Apple had 90% of profits, isnt that a better metric of monopoly?

Monopolies are interesting because they limit choice. Increased profit may be a side effect, but that's it. It's accidental, not essential, to the definition.

Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#119

Post by ryanolsonx »

zymhan wrote: post #50

It is interesting that they're making it seem like a new app, when they're actually augmenting an existing (and seemingly forgotten) app. I was a little confused about the app/update at first, given that I'd had Mozilla Focus installed already. It was an adblocker/privacy plugin for Safari only, though. It appears they just took the Private Browsing component of Firefox for iOS and integrated it into the old privacy…

Well, the key here is that the functionality of the extension 'Firefox Focus' only works for Safari in iOS. They weren't able to make it work for Firefox for iOS. So this is a way to use it outside of Safari.

Re: Firefox Focus – a free, fast and easy to use private browser for iOS

#120

Post by Latty »

st3fan wrote: post #114
pietroalbini wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But why should third party developers forced to use the engine Apple provides, instead of trying to innovate? The whole point of having different browsers is to have competition (which means better performance/new features), but currently in the iOS world there is Safari and multiple reskinned Safaris.

Stop talking about 'reskinned safari' please. This is not how it works. It is not what those alternative browsers currently are. You make it sound like we just change the color of the bezel. There are huge amounts of code around the WKWebView, which is the only thing common between browsers.

Sure, but there is also a huge amount in the rendering engine that can't be changed, which is the issue.
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