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Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China

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Re: Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China

#111

Post by rubicon33 »

thomyorkie wrote: post #92
rubicon33 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does "basic income" work? I have never heard it explained in a way that made any sense. Starting with a premise that resources are finite, you will always have power brokers who oppose the idea of spreading resources thin across the population. To think that would ever happen on a global scale seems as likely as us populating mars. It could happen, but certainly not in my lifetime.

I admit I haven't given it a whole lot of thought, but, for the US at least, I see it happening slowly over time as a smooth extension of welfare, not as some piece of landmark legislation. As automation increases and jobs become more scarce, more people will need welfare assistance. With strained resources the government will look for solutions such as an automation tax for corporations, perhaps less defense/militar…

I see. That makes sense. I was attempting to understand it as some sort of, as you say, "landmark legislation". But picturing it more as an extension / evolution of welfare, definitely makes it seem more plausible. Though, welfare is something that you have to qualify for, and my understanding of basic income was that even the richest of the rich, would be able to collect their basic income.

Re: Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China

#112

Post by 794CD01 »

it_learnses wrote: post #28
ThomPete wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was responding to the OP who said it wasn't a zero zum game. Not sure why we are suddenly discussing what I propose instead. All I am saying is that it's easy to forget that real people are effected by progress and that the narrative that we all benefit is kind of disingenuous from that perspective and I believe we need to think harder on what to do about that because it's only going to increase.

Yep, agreed. Universal basic income is one solution that keeps coming back as a silver bullet. Not sure what the downsides are yet, but I'm pretty certain that there's still going to be haves and have nots: just a few rich that own all the automation and resources vs the rest of us just surviving on basic income. Maybe we'll all be ok immersed in VR adventures as long as we're fed and clothed...

It's politically infeasible. You might as well ask "why doesn't everyone just get along? what's the downside?"

Re: Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China

#113

Post by seanmcdirmid »

spydum wrote: post #103
Animats wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Drivers in Beijing advance into traffic-light controlled intersections even when the path ahead of them is blocked, causing a junction to get blocked up, even when all lanes leading away from it This is the literal "gridlock" problem, which can lock up a road system. The US had that problem in some cities until New York City introduced "Don't Block the Box" around 1980. It took a PR campaign, and, some ticketing, a…

interesting. I wonder how automated traffic cameras/redlight ticket systems would impact that? I suspect most people "squeeze" into the intersection to avoid the next cycle, because they dont see a traffic cop around. if all intersections are photo enforced, you'd think that problem would go away (or at least, citations would go up enough to fund some better traffic control/flow solutions)

China (well, Beijing) has tons of photo enforced intersections, but the government itself doesn't see "blocking intersection" as wrong so they never ticket for that.

Also, I've never seen a traffic cop actually pull someone over or do enforcement at all (maybe some DUI checkpoints, that's it!). If it wasn't for the cameras, no laws would ever get enforced. They only enforce parking laws a couple of times a year, so many two lane roads have become one lane as citizens take advantage of a lack of parking enforcement and a lack of cheap parking.

Re: Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China

#114

Post by cesarbs »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #49
finid wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it isn't uncommon to see someone back up on a free way because they missed their exit in Beijing....The US, for the most part, doesn't have these problems I'm guessing that you haven't driven anywhere near New York City or Boston. I've seen my fair share of drivers backing up or driving on the part of the road they're not supposed to just because they missed their exit. Someone said I've done that myself, but I'll ne…

Sure it "happens", but do you see it on almost all of your commutes? When someone does something dumb ass in the states, everyone is shocked and surprised, in Beijing it is just normal and should be expected (as a benefit, everyone is driving like everyone else is crazy). (And I wasn't driving, rather sitting in the taxi, but I digress)

I live in the Seattle area and I see people doing "dumb ass" things on the road every single day.

Re: Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China

#115

Post by cesarbs »

Animats wrote: post #90
rahimnathwani wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love it if all cars in China were self-driving. The road situation causes me stress whether I'm a pedestrian, cyclist or a car passenger (I don't drive here in Beijing). A few weeks ago, it took me over 3 hours to cover 16km in Beijing. It would have been faster to walk. The visible causes were: - Drivers in Beijing drive slowly when there's heavy rain - The sheer number of cars - Drivers in Beijing advance into…

- Drivers in Beijing advance into traffic-light controlled intersections even when the path ahead of them is blocked, causing a junction to get blocked up, even when all lanes leading away from it This is the literal "gridlock" problem, which can lock up a road system. The US had that problem in some cities until New York City introduced "Don't Block the Box" around 1980. It took a PR campaign, and, some ticketing, a…

And yet every now and then I'll be stopped waiting for a blocked intersection to clear before advancing, and the asshole behind me will start honking.

I live in the Seattle area though, not NYC.

Re: Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China

#116

Post by seanmcdirmid »

cesarbs wrote: post #114
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it "happens", but do you see it on almost all of your commutes? When someone does something dumb ass in the states, everyone is shocked and surprised, in Beijing it is just normal and should be expected (as a benefit, everyone is driving like everyone else is crazy). (And I wasn't driving, rather sitting in the taxi, but I digress)

I live in the Seattle area and I see people doing "dumb ass" things on the road every single day.

I'm from Seattle originally. Every time I visited Seattle (well Bellevue/Redmond) for work, it wasn't that bad. People are pretty mellow, well, I guess you would have to go to Beijing to understand that there are different levels of dumb assery.

Re: Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China

#117

Post by alexbeloi »

forgotpwtomain wrote: post #80
alexbeloi wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pro self-driving cars. But you have to admit, there's going to be riots in the streets when it's no longer economical to pay a human to drive a trunk/taxi. Look at the protest people have over Uber, and they're not even destroying jobs, they're just moving them from one place to another. And already you can see that non-trivial parts of society can't handle that. There's going to be protests, poverty and chaos, a…

> But you have to admit, there's going to be riots in the streets when it's no longer economical to pay a human to drive a trunk/taxi. Why would there be riots in the streets for self-driving cars in particular? Like when there were riots for the assembly-line or the tractor? There will be riots for education, healthcare and opportunity - and probably there should be. Technological progress of civilization should be…

>Like when there were riots for the assembly-line or the tractor?

Yes, exactly like that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power-loom_riots

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_Riots

Re: Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China

#118

Post by akira2501 »

dtnewman wrote: post #25

I worry about the regulatory aspects of getting self-driving cars off-the-ground in the United States. It is inevitable that self driving cars will make mistakes and people will be injured or killed as a result. It is also inevitable that people will be injured or killed as a result of people driving cars. But in the long run, it's virtually guaranteed that self-driving technology will result in safer cars and fewer…

> for US regulators to create policies that are encourage the development of self-driving cars.

How much more friendly of an environment do they need? The NHTSA has guidelines, and wants answers, but it hasn't shown a lot of prior restraint in this space.

These companies are slow to move because they know full well that if they kill enough drivers, their stock will fall so much that they'll be de-listed from any legitimate securities market in a matter of days.

This is a complicated space with a lot of new liabilities and civil responsibilities to consider, it _should_ move slow.

Re: Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China

#119

Post by akira2501 »

hx87 wrote: post #64
VeejayRampay wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless I'm missing something the car needs to have an engine, that's heavy enough to kill people, even at moderate speeds, no?

Not if you go all-electric. Motors are light, batteries are heavy, but battery packs give you much more packaging flexibility than an ICE engine.

To an extent, but at those current draws, you do need integrated cooling in your battery packs.

Re: Baidu’s self-driving cars begin public test in Wuzhen, China

#120

Post by ThomPete »

alphydan wrote: post #102
ThomPete wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am 42 so I've been around and you aren't answering the question which is telling. There are 18 million developers world wide, a little more than 3million in the US. Between 1998-2004 the us lost 4 million jobs to china, in the same period china lost 15 million jobs to the robots. Outsourcing is just the step before automation. I am not panicking as I am one of those who benefit mostly from this, I am just painfully…

Let me have a go: When I was at university google had 8 employees :) ... who would have imagined then jobs like SEO/SEM Consultant, blogger, online life-coach, android indie game designer, stay-at-home person selling junk on ebay, etc, etc. For self driving cars... how about: - Guide (jump into the self-driving van, and I (human) will give you a personal and engaging tour of the region, parks, people, wines .... we'l…

You don't have to guess the numbers wont add up. Google and Facebook have way less people than other companies their revenue taking into consideration.

What is happening these days is an increase of capital rather than labour heavy companies. The number of new companies is falling in all of europe and the size of the large companies is falling net.

Most of those things are on the verge to be automated too.

So you are not even remotely showing anything.

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