Apple, this time you made a mistake • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple, this time you made a mistake

#111

Post by jakebasile » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 8:38 PM UTC

Bud wrote: post #67

jakebasile wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also made them incompatible with practically all existing USB devices.

And yet forwards-compatible with practically all USB devices that will be made going forward. In other words, they did what you must do in order to move forward to a new, superior standard which gives 40 Gbps performance plus power in AND out on all 4 ports.

I don't need 40Gbps to run my mouse, and I shouldn't have to spend more money on an already egregiously overpriced machine to get an adapter. I don't want another adapter to output to my monitor. I don't want another adapter to connect to ethernet.

USB C doesn't need to be all or nothing. They could include 2 USB C and 2 USB A and solve half of these problems. Throw in a MiniDisplayPort or an HDMI and we're set.

Re: Apple, this time you made a mistake

#112

Post by jakebasile » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 8:39 PM UTC

SysArchitect wrote: post #83

jakebasile wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And also made them incompatible with practically all existing USB devices.

Incompatible? It's still USB, just bring a dongle. Wait a year or so, that dongle will be obsolete except for older tech.

So, all the tech we use that uses USB A will disappear in the next year? It's ok, I can just spend more money so my keyboard and mouse can work with my $2400 machine.

Re: Apple, this time you made a mistake

#113

Post by mastre_ » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 8:40 PM UTC

Serious question: how will us vim users get by w/o physical escape key? If it's just a touch in the same position as old physical key, I think it'll be fine (may actually be nice, as it will _feel_ different, for a very special key).

Re: Apple, this time you made a mistake

#114

Post by dogma1138 » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 8:42 PM UTC

MBCook wrote: post #60

techtivist wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surface Studio perhaps? ;)

It will be interesting to see if Apple decides to try to respond to that thing. It's pretty impressive in quite a few ways.

They most likely will just like they did with the iPad pro.

Re: Apple, this time you made a mistake

#115

Post by 0x0 » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 8:42 PM UTC

Bud wrote: post #105

0x0 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you can't FEEL them. So you can't use them without looking down at your keyboard. Which is a pretty horrible proposition for touch typists.

Touch typing doesn't involve the Escape key, really, which is the only key that's relevant here. For those who need it, Esc will be readily-mappable to a hardware key combo. Also, it's simply false that you can't use a Touch Bar key without looking down. It's just a simple motor skill like anything else. Very very slightly harder than having a hardware Esc key. Trivial.

I don't know about you but I "touch-type" F6, F7, F8, F9, F10 all the time while single-step debugging. It looks like the Touch Bar can change to anything at any moment, such as "answer facetime call" so I wouldn't trust blindly touching it. And I don't have a spare physical button to map escape onto because I already use all the remaining buttons for their intended purpose, including caps-lock.

Re: Apple, this time you made a mistake

#116

Post by reustle » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 8:45 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #93

AndrewStephens wrote: post #65

What a whiney, content-free blog post. The author complains about removing the function keys, MagSafe, HDMI, SD Card and the escape key but doesn't give any examples of how they used those in the past or how those features' absence will cripple their workflow. Here are my thoughts: Removing the function keys and replacing them with the touch bar is a step up. The function keys have been annoyingly inconsistent on mac…

> The addition of the fingerprint scanner alone is a win Interesting. Every other laptop has one these days, but I haven't really seen people using it much. It seems more like a gimmick. Fingerprint scanner on a phone makes more sense, because it lets you to unlock it almost as quickly as if you didn't have any lockscreen security, which is a big convenience.

> It seems more like a gimmick.

Don't you use a password manager? Aren't you tired of constantly typing your master password in to unlock your keys?

Re: Apple, this time you made a mistake

#117

Post by Zikes » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 8:46 PM UTC

0x0 wrote: post #37

masklinn wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A maxxed out MBP costs €5000 That's quite dishonest considering a fair bit of that is the 1700€ 2TB SSD (which is not an unfair price, that's about what Samsung announced for the 960 Pro) > which is $5447.95. Also dishonest, most people expect USD prices to be without tax, you're including the ~20% european VATs in that by converting back from tax-included euro prices.

Fine, maxxed out except 1TB instead of 2TB SSD and the total is €4.039. The bump up/down from 2TB to 1TB is "only" €960. Also sales tax isn't dishonest. I have to pay it to buy the machine!! This is a ton more money than what maxxed out macbook pros were around 2013 in €, and to be honest the total package feels like a downgrade.

> Also sales tax isn't dishonest. I have to pay it to buy the machine!!

What they mean to say is that VAT is included in the price tag in Europe, so when people see the € number they'll say "and that's exactly what it will cost" whereas in the US prices are before tax, so we will mentally inflate the number by ~10% when we see it.

Re: Apple, this time you made a mistake

#118

Post by dogma1138 » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 8:46 PM UTC

Akkuma wrote: post #87

Bud wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it's called the MacBook Pro. It runs Windows, natively, just fine. In fact, PC World once ranked it as the best Windows laptop.

Macbooks run Windows, but the driver support is pretty horrendous from Apple. Basically, they say it runs and stop supporting it after that. I cannot get a graphics driver update at all. Another good example is that TRRS does not work at all for Windows and this is 100% a driver issue.

I have no problems installing the Radeon drivers on my mid 2015 MBP and not using the default Apple ones.

Re: Apple, this time you made a mistake

#119

Post by reustle » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 8:47 PM UTC

Bud wrote: post #105

0x0 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you can't FEEL them. So you can't use them without looking down at your keyboard. Which is a pretty horrible proposition for touch typists.

Touch typing doesn't involve the Escape key, really, which is the only key that's relevant here. For those who need it, Esc will be readily-mappable to a hardware key combo. Also, it's simply false that you can't use a Touch Bar key without looking down. It's just a simple motor skill like anything else. Very very slightly harder than having a hardware Esc key. Trivial.

I use my volume keys without looking also, 10s of times per day.

Re: Apple, this time you made a mistake

#120

Post by jitbit » Thu, Oct 27, 2016, 8:47 PM UTC

AndrewStephens wrote: post #65

What a whiney, content-free blog post. The author complains about removing the function keys, MagSafe, HDMI, SD Card and the escape key but doesn't give any examples of how they used those in the past or how those features' absence will cripple their workflow. Here are my thoughts: Removing the function keys and replacing them with the touch bar is a step up. The function keys have been annoyingly inconsistent on mac…

It all comes down to this:

NOW I HAVE LOOK AT THE KEYBOARD.

For example, as a developer I press the ESC button zillion times a day. I'm used to "upper-left corner is cancel/close/undo".

Now with the new touchbar it can have an "OK" there. Or "Done". Or "edit". It's up to a developer now.