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The Problem with Modern Romance Is Too Much Choice

nautil.us

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Re: The Problem with Modern Romance Is Too Much Choice

#111

Post by wyager »

jasode wrote: post #9

>So is there an ideally sized choice set when it comes to dating—one large enough to include variety and depth, yet small enough that you can fairly weigh each prospect’s potential without tripping your brain’s overload switch? [...] Fisher puts people somewhere in the middle of that range. “Once you’ve met nine people who are vaguely in the ballpark, choose one and get to know that person better. If nothing works in…

It is worth noting that the 1/e secretary problem solution is optimal only if your goal is to maximize the probability of choosing the single best secretary.

If your goal is to do expectimax optimization, as decision theory would dictate, you should make a decision after reviewing sqrt(n) applicants. That's assuming a uniform distribution of utility among secretary choices. If the distribution is non-uniform, another heuristic might be better.

Re: The Problem with Modern Romance Is Too Much Choice

#112

Post by Cthulhu_ »

Overtonwindow wrote: post #36

I think the issue of "too much choice" in online dating has seeped out into the real world, making people believe the world is full of infinite choice, so why get married? Why settle? Why TRY? When the world beckons.

That's another thing, everyone has the freedom to move and live wherever they want, to work where they want under their conditions (hours, pay, etc. Interestingly enough, working conditions aren't up for debate as much), etc. The other part is that there's very, very few relationships that end up in "for life"; my parents' generation is still the ones that believe in marriage for life, they manage their problems like adults. But there's no social reason to stay together anymore, at least if both parties are financially independent - on that note, I know a few people that stay together not because they want to, but for practical and financial reasons. as in, the woman / mother can't move because she couldn't afford it. Kinda sad really.

Re: The Problem with Modern Romance Is Too Much Choice

#113

Post by NumberCruncher »

imaginenore wrote: post #38
colmvp wrote: post #14

I'm just going to preface this by saying I'm a fairly physically unattractive man (short, Asian, assymetrical face with no strong jawline). The quality of the women (based on intellect, personality, accomplishments, and appearance) who I've met in real life first before dating have been vastly superior to the women who I managed to find a date with through online dating. Besides the restrictiveness of the online dati…

When you make a strict distinction between hooking up and dating, everything starts to make sense. Hooking up stats are rather clear: around 80% of women have sex with around 20% of men. That's why an average looking guy on PoF/CL/Tinder/OkCupid has very little chance compared to real life. This imbalance is actually caused by the guys. Your average guy will throw himself at almost any woman. You join a site, you go…

Dancing (I mean couple dancing) is the best way meeting new women. On the dancing floor there is a shortage of men and after a short "do you wanna dance?" question you have right away physical contact. Online dating is quite the opposite.

Re: The Problem with Modern Romance Is Too Much Choice

#114

Post by k__ »

cloudjacker wrote: post #100
k__ wrote: post #37

I'm into polyamory, I'm also rather alternative looking (mowhawk, piercings). These things filter >99% of the people out, but most of them aren't of my interest in the first place. Globally I have lesser choice, locally it works out pretty good for me, at least at the moment.

I like polyamory, but I'm not attracted to any of the people into polyamory My perception is that the people I find attractive, are considered attractive by wide consensus, and are holding out for more traditional options

can't relate to that, there are as much attractive people as anywhere else, the only thing I encountered that much more hippies and feminist are around.

Re: The Problem with Modern Romance Is Too Much Choice

#115

Post by GFK_of_xmaspast »

thr328982 wrote: post #12

I think most men have opposite experience. Only a celebrity can choose from hundreds of potential mates. It is almost impossible to find a good partner for starting a family (healthy, bellow 26, no debt, family values).

How old are you that you're setting a ceiling of 26?

Re: The Problem with Modern Romance Is Too Much Choice

#116

Post by auganov »

techdragon wrote: post #85
auganov wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not wanting to date some random people that approach you in public spaces is being "too picky"? Might as well say that having any preference is too picky. By that definition, I'm yet to make a friend that isn't "too picky" or does not have a "major issue".

I think the point is less about how they are surrounded by people who want to date them and more about the fact that should they chose to, they have the option of any of accepting a date, or even asking for one themselves, from the typically plentiful group of single people who are seeking their attentions. Ignoring these opportunities in favour of having a computer mediated interaction where they are able to choose…

But it's just not true? "accepting a date" from how many people? 0-3? I guess for bar/club goers perhaps it's different. But the notion that you're going to have a substantial number of people "lined up" if you're just going about your life is simply false. Sure you can ask people out, but then it's as much of a choice as going online is. Not a default you're passively opted into.

Even OP has admitted that they were easily getting many dates online yet still they had to reject a lot of people (I assume?). And (again assumedly) that is not picky [cause they had "issues"], while somebody not picking whoever from a small pool is.

And that's all without going into how the cohort of people doing the approaching can be skewed in an unfavorable way, the scariness and increased risk of accepting a date in person etc.

I don't want into arguments about definitions. My point is, for the average computer literate person, going on the Internet is the expected rational choice. Or perhaps more widely, that the Internet meme of "women have it easier, there's something wrong with ones that can't find a suitable date" is based on rather troubling judgments.

Re: The Problem with Modern Romance Is Too Much Choice

#117

Post by shin_lao »

jasode wrote: post #9

>So is there an ideally sized choice set when it comes to dating—one large enough to include variety and depth, yet small enough that you can fairly weigh each prospect’s potential without tripping your brain’s overload switch? [...] Fisher puts people somewhere in the middle of that range. “Once you’ve met nine people who are vaguely in the ballpark, choose one and get to know that person better. If nothing works in…

It's not the secretary problem, because in the secretary problem you cannot recall a dismissed candidate and you can only evaluate one candidate at a time.

Re: The Problem with Modern Romance Is Too Much Choice

#118

Post by projektir »

steve-howard wrote: post #93
projektir wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe the HN crowd should just make a dating app that doesn't suck? Pretty much all the existing ones have some really bad biases behind them and run on appearance. Message boards and video games still beat them in that department for the more specialized types, which is silly.

Every new dating app that comes out is an attempt to make dating apps not suck. No one has succeeded so far. There are a small number of people with a ton of success who know how to market themselves, and there are a lot of good people who don't have that skill that find themselves shouting into the void.

Err, most of these apps are managed by the same company and a lot of them seem to have been created with the entire purpose of making dating worse (Tinder).

If all these apps are coming out with an attempt to make dating apps not suck, they're doing an excellent job of falling into all the same pitfalls over and over again.

Oh, hey, you homogenized the entire population of a city and made everything about pictures again!

Re: The Problem with Modern Romance Is Too Much Choice

#119

Post by projektir »

auganov wrote: post #116
techdragon wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point is less about how they are surrounded by people who want to date them and more about the fact that should they chose to, they have the option of any of accepting a date, or even asking for one themselves, from the typically plentiful group of single people who are seeking their attentions. Ignoring these opportunities in favour of having a computer mediated interaction where they are able to choose…

But it's just not true? "accepting a date" from how many people? 0-3? I guess for bar/club goers perhaps it's different. But the notion that you're going to have a substantial number of people "lined up" if you're just going about your life is simply false. Sure you can ask people out, but then it's as much of a choice as going online is. Not a default you're passively opted into. Even OP has admitted that they were…

Thank you, this weird myth that women are just walking around with this amazing pool of compatible men to choose from needs to go away and definitely has no place here. Even for women for whom there is a really large pool, which is not all women, it just creates a lot of extra noise to sift through but it's not really quality.

From what I heard, nobody gets anything serious started in clubs. Bars are probably better but, quite honestly, I don't feel safe going to a bar by myself late in the evening.

Re: The Problem with Modern Romance Is Too Much Choice

#120

Post by jasode »

shin_lao wrote: post #117
jasode wrote: post #9

>So is there an ideally sized choice set when it comes to dating—one large enough to include variety and depth, yet small enough that you can fairly weigh each prospect’s potential without tripping your brain’s overload switch? [...] Fisher puts people somewhere in the middle of that range. “Once you’ve met nine people who are vaguely in the ballpark, choose one and get to know that person better. If nothing works in…

It's not the secretary problem, because in the secretary problem you cannot recall a dismissed candidate and you can only evaluate one candidate at a time.

Yes, I had already stated it was not The Secretary Problem. See that I used the phrase "a related concept ... serial ..."
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