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N.S.A. Contractor Arrested in Possible New Theft of Secrets

nytimes.com

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Re: N.S.A. Contractor Arrested in Possible New Theft of Secrets

#111

Post by ChoHag »

redwards510 wrote: post #30
matt_wulfeck wrote: post #8

I ask myself what I should be more upset about: that someone walked away with government hacking tools, or that our government knew about existing exploits in critical American company technologies and kept them a secret?

Understandable complaints, but isn't the latter just standard procedure in modern cyberwarfare? I think I would be more upset if America didn't have any offensive zero-day weapons to strike with. If we only had capability against foreign companies software, everyone would just buy American and be immune.

The NSA retaining zerodays and other exploits works if and only if they use their knowledge of the exploits to patch their own systems, which is unlikely enough, and that they share such patches with certain echelons of US corporate society.

Apparently they do it anyway.

Re: N.S.A. Contractor Arrested in Possible New Theft of Secrets

#112

Post by ChoHag »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #40
redwards510 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Understandable complaints, but isn't the latter just standard procedure in modern cyberwarfare? I think I would be more upset if America didn't have any offensive zero-day weapons to strike with. If we only had capability against foreign companies software, everyone would just buy American and be immune.

Would Americans be more or less secure in that world? On account of (a) unjust governments being more likely to abuse power than just ones, (b) unjust governments are more dangerous than unjust actors and (c) the belief that just governments are plausible, I would say "more". If you live under an unjust government, their curtailed power is a plus. If you live under a just government, your threat profile from unjust g…

This is what the USA has forgotten, and why they are such a disappointment to the rest of us. Unjust government can be as abusive as it likes. Just government gains its strength from justice alone and its acts of abuse are its first step towards its inevitable unjustice.

Additional: Abuse is seductive. Abuse from power is absolutely seductive.

Re: N.S.A. Contractor Arrested in Possible New Theft of Secrets

#113

Post by ChoHag »

tobltobs wrote: post #73
redwards510 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Understandable complaints, but isn't the latter just standard procedure in modern cyberwarfare? I think I would be more upset if America didn't have any offensive zero-day weapons to strike with. If we only had capability against foreign companies software, everyone would just buy American and be immune.

This doesn't make any sense. You will have attack cyber weapons, but at the same time you risk that your enemies can use the same weapon against the infrastructure you are there to protect. Collecting attack weapons, but letting your defense rot is a strategy which might work in computer games.

You seem to be implying they're doing something else?

Re: N.S.A. Contractor Arrested in Possible New Theft of Secrets

#114

Post by ChoHag »

redthrowaway wrote: post #66

John Schindler (former NSA counterintelligence officer) called this back in August: http://observer.com/2016/08/the-real-russian-mole-inside-nsa... This would explain how the Russians ended up with the source code for TAO's toys.

The article seems to be suggesting that the idea that there are KGB moles inside the NSA is, in and of itself, indicitative of the NSA's ultimate failure.

That's ludicrous. You'd be an idiot to ever suggest that the NSA wasn't penetrated at any given time somewhere by some foreign power's own spy agency. Design for the failure that's going to happen, not the perfection that never will.

Re: N.S.A. Contractor Arrested in Possible New Theft of Secrets

#115

Post by omginternets »

viraptor wrote: post #95
cornchips wrote: post #93

Want to see something really scary??? Here's his house: https://www.google.com/maps/place/7+Harvard+Rd,+Glen+Burnie,...

Whatever the reason, makes me wonder why would anyone try to do this. I mean, I know where it is - I can drive there and take a picture if I wanted to. But bluring out one particular house on a normal street is kind of like the story (I believe from one of the Sherlock Holmes books) about a guard telling the detective about all of the town, apart from one house, where he hid the body.

You have to show yourself, and this increases the chance of people reporting a strange man taking photos of a house.

Yes, it's not cryptographic-level security, but it raises the costs of an attack. In the real world, that matters.

Also consider that not all attacks are spy-vs-spy. This could be a case of 'keeping honest people honest', i.e.: making it sufficiently difficult to dissuade the majority of political activists and/or protesters. This is the same reason why padlocks are a thing.

Re: N.S.A. Contractor Arrested in Possible New Theft of Secrets

#116

Post by askvictor »

nickff wrote: post #60
SEJeff wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's to say $FOREIGN_INFOSEC_ACTORS don't try to target employees like him? Maybe he did "take his work home" and a FSB operative stole it from his home or hacked his home computer? I'm saying this as if this was Russia and he was a Russian infosec guy, I wouldn't put it past the NSA TAO to go do just that.

Yes, this is dangerous; people shouldn't be allowed to bring government secrets home with them... unless they are cabinet level officials?

Actually, this argument has some merit, as cabinet level officials probably have a security detail, and hence much less likely to be infiltrated than a random contractor (at least physically; electronically is another matter)

Re: N.S.A. Contractor Arrested in Possible New Theft of Secrets

#117

Post by catscratch »

I understand curiosity of sensitive data. I think everyone wants to know more.

I also understand that some people think that no one should have this power and want to stop it. I wish that, if you feel this way, you renounce your citizenship and find another country that acts as you believe they should and just leave the other country alone, unless you feel they are threatening you or those you love and you must do something about it, and even then only if can do something to help in a way that won't hurt anyone now or in the future. Yes, I know it's not always that easy.

But, if you live in a country, through your taxes and your citizenship, you pay for and are recipient of the work of people whose job it is to protect us and all other citizens of your country. And if you didn't know how they defended you, you do now. It isn't always pretty, to say it lightly.

I don't want people to do bad things in the name of good or defense. It'd be better if every country had a large number of grown up boy scouts to protect that country in the most honorable way possible. But, we have what we have. Sure go ahead- expose it if you want, but the more you harm it, the more you'll end up with a group of people that are even more secretive and do things even worse to try to ensure that security. I really don't want that to happen. Things need to get better instead!

Many in the US say that we need to protect people from themselves, and then criticize or harm those trying to protect us. Why?

I used to be much more paranoid and just group people into the "trying to hurt me" bracket. But I grew up. I realized that almost everyone in the world I meet wants to do good or at least has a motivation to try to accomplish something they believe is right.

Re: N.S.A. Contractor Arrested in Possible New Theft of Secrets

#118

Post by themodelplumber »

nocarrier wrote: post #97
cornchips wrote: post #93

Want to see something really scary??? Here's his house: https://www.google.com/maps/place/7+Harvard+Rd,+Glen+Burnie,...

Not sure if you know this, but you can ask Google to blur a Street View address by filling out a form. I'd guess he did this himself versus any sort of conspiracy thing happening.

I gave it a shot and couldn't find the form. Before I got anywhere near it, Google Help seemed to suggest that the address to be blurred needed to be a violation of Google's policies or something.

Re: N.S.A. Contractor Arrested in Possible New Theft of Secrets

#119

Post by detaro »

themodelplumber wrote: post #118
nocarrier wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if you know this, but you can ask Google to blur a Street View address by filling out a form. I'd guess he did this himself versus any sort of conspiracy thing happening.

I gave it a shot and couldn't find the form. Before I got anywhere near it, Google Help seemed to suggest that the address to be blurred needed to be a violation of Google's policies or something.

just open Streetview and click "report a problem" at the very bottom right of the page.

Re: N.S.A. Contractor Arrested in Possible New Theft of Secrets

#120

Post by viraptor »

omginternets wrote: post #115
viraptor wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever the reason, makes me wonder why would anyone try to do this. I mean, I know where it is - I can drive there and take a picture if I wanted to. But bluring out one particular house on a normal street is kind of like the story (I believe from one of the Sherlock Holmes books) about a guard telling the detective about all of the town, apart from one house, where he hid the body.

You have to show yourself, and this increases the chance of people reporting a strange man taking photos of a house. Yes, it's not cryptographic-level security, but it raises the costs of an attack. In the real world, that matters. Also consider that not all attacks are spy-vs-spy. This could be a case of 'keeping honest people honest', i.e.: making it sufficiently difficult to dissuade the majority of political acti…

> You have to show yourself, and this increases the chance of people reporting a strange man taking photos of a house.

In the year of pokemon go players everywhere? And even then, who cares about a person with a mobile phone? We're a good decade after anyone is a "strange man" when taking photos anywhere. You don't even have to show yourself. Just order a cab and go through that street without stopping.

> dissuade the majority of political activists and/or protesters

I'm not convinced. The only thing the blurring did was prove that this is the interesting house, rather than a name coincidence. What is that supposed to dissuade me from if I was already going to go there and do something potentially illegal?

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