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It’s easier and cheaper to use bank wires than Bitcoin

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Re: It’s easier and cheaper to use bank wires than Bitcoin

#111
post #48

Or rather "The Disaster That Is Bitcoin Services Around Bitcoin". I'm wondering if there would be the same kind of article that dollars is very bad, because bank wants some money for wireing them e.g. to Europe, and the exchange rate between dollar and euro could change overnight.

It's right there in the same article. He mentions bank transfers are bad so he went with Bitcoin - only to find Bitcoin was even worse.

Re: It’s easier and cheaper to use bank wires than Bitcoin

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems the actual fiat currency part worked fine. I don't think Bitcoin is made at will out of thin air like flat currency routinely is. You can still argue that this is not a problem with flat currency itself, but the problem is, unlike Bitcoin, the laws regarding printing and production of flat currency are not governed by hard-to-break math.

But it's not really based on math. A majority of miners could decide, say after the next halvening that future block rewards should be held as is. Sure, it would split the network, but a majority of miners may decide it's in their economic interest to do so.

If they fork it's effectively the same as them switching to a totally new coin with entirely different branding. NewBitcoin is no more threatening that Ethereum.

There's nothing they can do that gets rid of your bitcoin though. That's the "math" point. As long as they're on the main chain the rules (expressible as math) prevent arbitrary creation or destruction of coins.

Re: It’s easier and cheaper to use bank wires than Bitcoin

#113
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin is made at will out of thin air. It's just an arbitrary amount created every day. The creation rate was just picked by whoever created it. I think it can actually be changed by concensus. I see no reason why an arbitrary rate is better than a rate chosen to minimize inflation and deflation. Bitcoin basically is a fiat currency, except no government forces people to use it.

The irony being if something like Fusion power happened bitcoin hyperinflation would be guaranteed.

Or when quantum computing breaks ECDSA and allows you to deduce Bitcoin holders' private keys.

Re: It’s easier and cheaper to use bank wires than Bitcoin

#115
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems the actual fiat currency part worked fine. I don't think Bitcoin is made at will out of thin air like flat currency routinely is. You can still argue that this is not a problem with flat currency itself, but the problem is, unlike Bitcoin, the laws regarding printing and production of flat currency are not governed by hard-to-break math.

Unfortunately for Bitcoin all of the issues 99% people have with fiat currency today have literally nothing to do with how money is created. Yes, it's a difficult problem to solve. No, Bitcoin has not solved it. Piggybacking on the electrical grid to turn "fairness" into "how much electricity you can afford"... how is that fair?

I haven't said it's "fair", only that there's a proven algorithm behind it, which I'll trust more than the goodness of human nature alone.

Re: It’s easier and cheaper to use bank wires than Bitcoin

#116

$236 is small change compared to how much bitcoin I've personally lost in the various hacks - MtGox and others. Even so, I still think bitcoin is a brilliant tech and valuable experiment. It is wrong to think of bitcoin as a direct competitor to fiat. Just like mp3 / bittorent did not destroy the music / movie industry, bitcoin isn't going to replace fiat currency. Not now and not in it's current form. But it's going…

Serious question. MtGox, as I recall, was the first major Bitcoin-losing hack. So I'll (kinda) excuse people for participating in that one. But why would you, especially after that, keep large amounts of BTC in these sorts of exchanges?

Re: It’s easier and cheaper to use bank wires than Bitcoin

#117
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately for Bitcoin all of the issues 99% people have with fiat currency today have literally nothing to do with how money is created. Yes, it's a difficult problem to solve. No, Bitcoin has not solved it. Piggybacking on the electrical grid to turn "fairness" into "how much electricity you can afford"... how is that fair?

I haven't said it's "fair", only that there's a proven algorithm behind it, which I'll trust more than the goodness of human nature alone.

I don't trust the goodness of human nature, I trust the legal and financial system that we've collectively built over the past millennia. Which actually does (at least attempts to) enforce some level of fairness. Why should I sign up to have the future of the financial system be controlled by an "algorithm" that is built on a technology (non-quantum crypto) that could be dead in less than 50 years?

Re: It’s easier and cheaper to use bank wires than Bitcoin

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It seems the actual fiat currency part worked fine. I don't think Bitcoin is made at will out of thin air like flat currency routinely is. You can still argue that this is not a problem with flat currency itself, but the problem is, unlike Bitcoin, the laws regarding printing and production of flat currency are not governed by hard-to-break math.

Bitcoin is made at will out of thin air. It's just an arbitrary amount created every day. The creation rate was just picked by whoever created it. I think it can actually be changed by concensus. I see no reason why an arbitrary rate is better than a rate chosen to minimize inflation and deflation. Bitcoin basically is a fiat currency, except no government forces people to use it.

> I see no reason why an arbitrary rate is better than a rate chosen to minimize inflation and deflation.

It's not about the rate, but about the EXACT rules being agreed upon up front by the MAJORITY of the network and actually enforced by a proven algorithm, rather than people's conscience alone.

Re: It’s easier and cheaper to use bank wires than Bitcoin

#119
post #81
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it amusing that you consider the internet "on your own" like there isn't a gigantic investment being made into that infrastructure that even enables bitcoin in the first place. Do people who are in to Bitcoin think intermediaries solely exist to extract value from transactions? There's actually a service being provided.

The argument here is that the protocol itself is independent and can run on the internet like bittorrent, IRC, SMTP, XMPP etc. This is not about the physical laws and resources governing the internet.

Have you tried torrenting anything recently?

Re: It’s easier and cheaper to use bank wires than Bitcoin

#120
post #24

I used TransferWise last time I had to move some money internationally, and had a good experience. Significantly faster and cheaper than wiring the money.

+1 for TransferWise, a simple solution for wires and it worked quite well for me
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