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Music theory for nerds

eev.ee

111–120 of 390 posts

Re: Music theory for nerds

#111
post #29

I've skimmed a lot of articles on music "theory" but none of them provide anything like what I'm looking for. A music theory should explain: 1. Why do we like pieces when played forward but not backward or inverted? 2. Why do certain sounds evoke certain emotions? 3. How could you write a program to pick out music that people find especially good (versus music that has surface similarities)? In other words, why does…

Not an article, but I think this talk hits a lot of interesting points:

http://www.ted.com/talks/benjamin_zander_on_music_and_passio...

Re: Music theory for nerds

#112
This is an interesting article, which touches on a lot of interesting musical topics. However, it's wrong on so many levels that I would never recommend it to someone who wants to understand music theory. I'll try to summarize.

I spent a long time researching where Western music "comes from". One important thing to understand is that the key feature of Western music is harmony. This is not the case for most other musical traditions. Harmony comes from a layering of independent melodic lines (called voices), such that they evolve in ways that create and resolve tensions. This is called counterpoint.

The ways in which these tensions resolve are called cadences, and classical music was all them. Musical form arises around how a piece of music is organized to have an arc (and arcs of arcs) that leads to a cadence. It's kind of like how there are only a few basic narrative structures in storytelling, yet infinite variations in types of stories.

The tension between the sounds in concurrent melodic voices emerges from the structure of the sounds. Harmonic sounds, like ones produced from wind and string instruments, sound good (consonant) when their fundamental frequencies are simple ratios. This is largely because of how the human auditory system works.

Our scales and chords come from picking collections of notes that approximate simple ratios. We deal with approximate ratios using nth-roots for two reasons. First, simple ratios don't compose well -- stack them (i.e. multiply them) and you get ratios that aren't so simple. nth-roots do stack nicely. Second, it lets us merge nearby flat and sharp notes. This wouldn't be possible if we used real ratios. That merger, known as enharmonicity, lets us do all sorts of cool compositional tricks that are generally considered more worthwhile than the slight improvement in sound quality we'd experience by using the real ratios. There are various ways to pick just which notes merge, but by far the most popular approach is to use 12 notes.

So, this is where we got our notes and scale from. This happened around the year 1800, give or take a couple decades.

The history of Western music since that point in time largely revolves around coming up with new ways to play with those 12 notes, in many ways erasing the musical features that caused the 12 notes to emerge in the first place. This is why the system of note names, with the flats and sharps, feels rather arbitrary today.

Unfortunately, there are not a lot of great resource that tell this full story. The two books I found most enlightening in piecing together the "real story" are:

- Tuning, Timbre, Spectrum, Scale: https://www.amazon.com/Tuning-Timbre-Spectrum-William-Sethar... - A Geometry of Music: https://www.amazon.com/Geometry-Music-Counterpoint-Extended-...

Re: Music theory for nerds

#113
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One attempt was Hummingbird. http://www.hummingbirdnotation.com

Which in durations are represented spacially, which in my opinion has two negative effects. The first is that spacial recognition takes more effort than symbol recognition, because it's comparative. The second, and more important being that complex sequences of notes will be very dense on the page, and simple sequences of notes will take up a lot of space on the page, so suddenly there is a tradeoff between having sh…

Your second point seems pretty valid, and to address your first point:

"There are multiple cues to the same information. Everything has both a symbol and spatial element, for all kinds of thinkers."

Indeed, in addition to the spatial length of the notes, there is also a symbol next to the notes denoting their life. You can see this on the linked page, in the second section. (Next to "Intuitive.")

Re: Music theory for nerds

#114

This is an interesting article, which touches on a lot of interesting musical topics. However, it's wrong on so many levels that I would never recommend it to someone who wants to understand music theory. I'll try to summarize. I spent a long time researching where Western music "comes from". One important thing to understand is that the key feature of Western music is harmony. This is not the case for most other mus…

> This is not the case for most other musical traditions.

Do you have examples of musical traditions that don't do this? Both the Indian and Chinese musical systems do something similar.

----

I'm not really sure if this post is "wrong". It gets the chronology mixed up a bit -- talking of twelfth roots of two before talking about ratios, but I thought that was just done to help explain things by reverse-engineering them. I don't think it claims that the notes "came from" roots of two.

Re: Music theory for nerds

#115
Well, the first figure: frequency is NOT the period, and amplitude is not that. I guess there are lots of errors in the text if the first figure is completely wrong.

Re: Music theory for nerds

#116
post #4

This has got to be some of the worst jargon and notation for anything, ever. Indeed. I'm a musician, and something non-musicians often ask (especially techies, it seems) is why we use such an archaic notation system. The reason is simply that a certain number of musicians have developed the skill of sight reading which is the ability to perform a composition directly from a written sheet, with little or no rehearsal.…

It's not merely sight reading that relies on the existing notation, jargon, and theory.

Every element of Western music builds on the same building blocks. Western harmony, as taught, relies on understanding chromatic and diatonic harmony; the author did a nice job figuring out and explaining the compromises inherent in equal temperament (without knowing about how ratios and tuning worked before equal temperament; people didn't always fudge the ratios to make them work out the same across all keys), which is cool. But, he still doesn't actually know much about western musical harmony, as evidenced by the assertion that C Major and A minor are "the same", because they share a key signature and the same notes. Had he known that equal temperament is a moden-ish invention, he might have also figured that C Major and A minor actually have (slightly) different notes if your instrument is tuned specifically for that key rather than with equal temperament.

In short, he's just not done learning yet. Most musicians and composers never really are, as it is a vast subject. And, what he's calling "music theory" is really more "equal temperament tuning math" with very little theory.

Not to say it's not interesting and well-presented. It may be useful for non-musical nerds to see it presented in this way.

Re: Music theory for nerds

#117
post #3

if you were hoping for a nerdy treatise on musical rhythm, harmony, form, cadences, sequences and motifs, and evolution from baroque to classical to romantic to modern... well this is not it. edit: just a comment about the temperament- before the octave was equally tempered intervals were rational fractions of the root. after the equal temperament was developed instruments could go across different keys without sound…

Well temperament is not the same as equal temperament. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_temperament The whole point of Bach’s Well-Tempered Clavier music is that tunes transposed to different keys sounded different, so you needed to compose the music specifically for each key. There’s some ongoing musicological debate about the details, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Well-Tempered_Clavier

>The whole point of Bach’s Well-Tempered Clavier music is that tunes transposed to different keys sounded different, so you needed to compose the music specifically for each key.

that sounds wrong. tranposing a piece into the instrument's natural temperament will make it sound better. TWC doesn't do that, you play a piece of any key without needing to transpose anything, because the piano is equally-tempered and has no natural temperament (without going into how "well temperament" differs from "equal temperament").

for instruments whose tuning can be changed with technique, like string instruments (even fretted ones), wind, reed and brass instruments you can revert to playing a pure temperament in order to make certain harmonies sound "better", which is what we sometimes did - for example, by getting the minor third instruments to play slightly flatter - in a symph band.

Re: Music theory for nerds

#118
post #4

This has got to be some of the worst jargon and notation for anything, ever. Indeed. I'm a musician, and something non-musicians often ask (especially techies, it seems) is why we use such an archaic notation system. The reason is simply that a certain number of musicians have developed the skill of sight reading which is the ability to perform a composition directly from a written sheet, with little or no rehearsal.…

I can sight read for winds and voice, but not for Piano, despite being able to play Piano relatively well. Thus, this explanation will probably apply mostly to single-voice musicians. 1. Find Do. This is the first note of the Major scale in the key which you are playing. Find it on the page, and burn it into your mind; everything you're about to do centers on the location of Do. In the key of C (white keys on a piano…

"2. Learn your intervals, and learn Solfege. If you're a musician, you already know these things in principal, even if you don't know the words or the terminology. In particular, you should be able to "hear" the distance between Do-Mi-Sol without too much difficulty, because you hear those distances in music a lot."

I believe the Solfege named intervals (Do-Re-Mi-Fa-So-La-Ti-Do) are only taught as a historical oddity these days (or maybe used more in classical training?). All of my musical instruction, at the high school and college level, used numeric interval names (1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8). Most of the serious musicians I've played with also used the numeric scale rather than Do-Re-Mi. We learned how to sing Do-Re-Mi, "Just in case", but we never used it.

Were you taught in the US, or somewhere else? Maybe it is a regional thing.

Re: Music theory for nerds

#119
post #9
post #3

if you were hoping for a nerdy treatise on musical rhythm, harmony, form, cadences, sequences and motifs, and evolution from baroque to classical to romantic to modern... well this is not it. edit: just a comment about the temperament- before the octave was equally tempered intervals were rational fractions of the root. after the equal temperament was developed instruments could go across different keys without sound…

I would love something like that. Any pointer?

Book: _How Music Works_ by John Powell.

Youtube series: "How Music Works with Howard Goodall". Start with rhythm, then melody, harmony, bass.

Re: Music theory for nerds

#120
post #59

The interested reader is referred to "Mathematics and Music" by David Wright, published by the American Mathematical Society. The realization that the circle of fifths is really there because 5 and 7 (aka -5) are co-prime to 12 was worth the entire thing! Together with 1 and 11 (aka -1) they generate the group Z_{n} for n = 12...

That explains why the circle of fifths is a circle that goes through all keys, but the really interesting thing about the circle of fifths is that a fifth sounds relatively close to the key next to it, and it doesn't really explain that, I guess.

Any key a fifth away only changes one note - if you go from C Major (CDEFGABC) to G Major (GABCDEF#G) then only the F# has changed, and as a result there are chords which are common between the two keys - any chord without an F in it in C will be common to G as well. Works the other way if you go 'down' a fifth (to F), but has a flat instead. (Bb)
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