Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Win32 and .NET desktop apps can now be published in the Windows Store

blogs.windows.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 158 posts

Re: Win32 and .NET desktop apps can now be published in the Windows Store

#111

Post by WorldMaker »

koko775 wrote: post #38
kodfodrasz wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

UWP is limited as it is relatively new. The new (capabilities based) security model is clearly better than the old "if you are admin, you can do whatever you want" model. The old model was inadequate even at the start of the multimedia age, but it was not recognized until recently. The new sandboxed operation creates more portable and reproduceably operating apps. The limitations will show, as more and more usecases…

WinRT means: * No app closure callbacks. You don't know if it's suspending or exiting. * No "are you sure you want to exit? Save/Don't save" dialogs. If you close or crash pray your data was saved, and if it takes a long time to flush to disk...really pray. * No minimizing/backgrounding to tray icons allowed.

There is a Suspending callback.

Sounds like you have some misconceptions about the UWP/WinRT application lifecycle:

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/launch-resume/a...

Re: Win32 and .NET desktop apps can now be published in the Windows Store

#112

Post by oridecon »

Too bad you still need a Microsoft account to use the store, besides sideloading. That's a deal breaker for me, at least on the desktop (I know you can login separately on each app).

1) How good is the sandbox? I followed the links but how battle-tested is it? What if you put an already sandboxed Chrome inside UWP, does it basically use almost the same calls or there are some extra benefits? Besides FS isolation.

2) Can I browse the "sandboxed disk" (including registry files) and export everything? So I can make backups or restore it later.

3) Does it stop apps from installing intrusive things? Some bank plugins use like 30% of my CPU on idle, run a lot of services on startup, so I have no option but to use a VM.

I'm really curious about all of this and there's almost no hype around it. All I see is people talking about walled gardens, privacy concerns (that I have too), how they screwed in the past with GFWL, Windows 8. But downloading software from 3rd party sources in 2016 is just awful. I want the Linux package manager experience. I don't trust any 3rd party like Ninite, Chocolatey, and they have like 10% of all the software I need anyways.

Let's see if the third time I make this comment gets a reply

Re: Win32 and .NET desktop apps can now be published in the Windows Store

#113

Post by WorldMaker »

youdontknowtho wrote: post #82
flohofwoe wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll try that as soon as I'm back on my Win10 laptop. If this works well it will be highly preferable over an UWP port, because too many compromises have to be made to run games on top of UWP. What I'd actually like to see is a new application model and set of APIs 100% focuses on games, in the original spirit of DirectX. The required API footprint for games is minimal and should be easy to sandbox. None of the exist…

I think that's the direction things are heading. If you look at the compositor API's they are trying to make the whole XAML layer easier to interop with DX because DX is where the perf and flexibility are.

Right, a big push to the XAML stack with the Anniversary Update was a lot of beefy pushes to what's called the "Visual Layer" [1]. A lot of the focus seems to be on making sure that you use high level XAML components and low level DirectX code side-by-side in the same windows.

[1] https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/graphics/visual...

Re: Win32 and .NET desktop apps can now be published in the Windows Store

#114

Post by WorldMaker »

jmkni wrote: post #98
benaadams wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You run the converter on your complied exe installer, not your applications code. That a fairly low barrier. Seems to make the Store very backwards compatible, it can even convert VB6 apps: http://www.hanselman.com/blog/PuttingMyVB6WindowsAppsInTheWi... Also if you want to go from exe rather than installer you can use makeappx directly https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/uwp/porting/desktop...

Wouldn't this make it easy for people to convert other peoples applications and upload them to the store? Especially if you don't need access to the code. I wonder what barriers MS has in place to prevent that sort of piracy?

The same barriers that try to keep people from needlessly cloning and profiting off open source projects? Review processes.

Re: Win32 and .NET desktop apps can now be published in the Windows Store

#115

Post by whiskahs »

youdontknowtho wrote: post #57
flukus wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not worried about it dissapearing, I'm worried the modern teh stack will change (it has). Then you start to either lose talent or rebuild the app.

Do what now? Does that mean that I can't build apps in C++ anymore? Because it looks like I can and it also looks like I have more options than I ever have. In fact, I can finally use standard ISO c++ to do more than ever. Do you just mean one UI toolkit over another? I wonder how Adobe has "kept talent" without rebuilding photoshop? If you are worried about keeping your personal skills up to date and focused on an a…

They kind of did rebuild photoshop. And Acrobat. And pretty much every one of their products after the Creative Cloud move.

Re: Win32 and .NET desktop apps can now be published in the Windows Store

#116

Post by WorldMaker »

forgotAgain wrote: post #107

So then UWP is basically dead for 99+% of it's use cases. For mobile: use Xamarin. For desktop: use win32/.net so you can support pre August 2016 versions of Windows. For Xbox and ARM where you also need support for desktop and mobile devices: use UWP.

There is no "Xamarin for Windows" there is only UWP. Xamarin spreads in the other direction giving Android and iOS a more UWP-like .NET development stack.

For Desktop, probably still a better idea for new development to be in UWP directly instead of converting a Win32 app.

This isn't the "death" of UWP, this is a stopgap bridge to take the long legacy of old Windows apps and give them a new life in the UWP era, including making it much easier to migrate out of classic Win32/.NET for newer UWP APIs, one screen at a time instead of porting the whole thing at once.

Re: Win32 and .NET desktop apps can now be published in the Windows Store

#117

Post by ocdtrekkie »

oridecon wrote: post #112

Too bad you still need a Microsoft account to use the store, besides sideloading. That's a deal breaker for me, at least on the desktop (I know you can login separately on each app). 1) How good is the sandbox? I followed the links but how battle-tested is it? What if you put an already sandboxed Chrome inside UWP, does it basically use almost the same calls or there are some extra benefits? Besides FS isolation. 2)…

Almost every "store" requires an account. Try to use the Play Store without a Google account. That being said, since UWP itself isn't tied to the Store, as UWP expands, there will hopefully be third party sites to get UWP apps. (Eventually even Steam I presume will offer UWP apps.)

If you know where to look, pretty much everything in a UWP app can be opened via file explorer. Check out the C:\Users\yourusername\AppData\Local\Packages folder

Re: Win32 and .NET desktop apps can now be published in the Windows Store

#118

Post by walterbell »

whiskahs wrote: post #115
youdontknowtho wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do what now? Does that mean that I can't build apps in C++ anymore? Because it looks like I can and it also looks like I have more options than I ever have. In fact, I can finally use standard ISO c++ to do more than ever. Do you just mean one UI toolkit over another? I wonder how Adobe has "kept talent" without rebuilding photoshop? If you are worried about keeping your personal skills up to date and focused on an a…

They kind of did rebuild photoshop. And Acrobat. And pretty much every one of their products after the Creative Cloud move.

Using which tech stack?

Re: Win32 and .NET desktop apps can now be published in the Windows Store

#119

Post by UK-AL »

garganzol wrote: post #53
UK-AL wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for the vast majority of people are not IT experts. The store model is probably vastly safer for the average user.

An average user is a myth. Every kind of average user has its own traits and they differ widely. That's why there is such thing as system settings. And yes, most desktop users are conscious when they work with files. Windows by default suggests "My Documents" folder as a target destination which is a pretty sane safe choice for all traits of average Joes.

That not the issue though. Programs that plaster your registry full of crap or replace or change os files etc

Re: Win32 and .NET desktop apps can now be published in the Windows Store

#120

Post by WorldMaker »

CyberDildonics wrote: post #85

So does this mean that there is a sandbox/jail that can be used arbitrarily? One of the biggest problems on windows is that you never know what an installer is going to do. Most average people's computers are bogged down with 20 things running all the time. Even without malware most people's computers slow down until they buy a new one.

Yes, these converted apps are containerized (sandboxed) and their arbitrary requests are redirected to an app-only location.
Post reply on HN